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Old November 24 2009, 08:32 PM   #106
TheBrew
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

I didn't mean for their marriage to be "erased", but as an impetus for them to break up.
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Old November 24 2009, 08:38 PM   #107
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

Or how about this: MJ's the one who gets shot rather than May. She pulls through, but Peter becomes convinced it's too dangerous for her to be around him, so he breaks up with her for her own protection. Or maybe he talks Dr. Strange into erasing everyone's memories of the marriage as well as his identity exposure, so that MJ and May will be safe and so he won't have to live with the pain of losing her. There are many ways they could've played it that would've made more sense than what they did.
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Old November 24 2009, 08:55 PM   #108
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

But then it wouldn't have been controversial!

I think making a controversial decision has a more "lasting" effect in comics at least for the fans - the controversy becomes a "memorable" point sometimes outshining everything else. So several years down the line when we would have forgotten the exact years that Civil War happened and that it led to the Secret Invasion and then to Dark Reign etc, we will still be talking about the "marriage erasure in a deal with the devil".

I was reading the early Avengers ( plodding thru it mostly out of sheer willpower) and whenever I see Hank Pym, I go "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
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Old November 24 2009, 10:06 PM   #109
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

I think that unmaking the marriage would've been plenty controversial without Mephisto being involved. And I don't think it really counts as a good kind of controversy when a lot of the complaints are over the fact that the plot was just plain badly done.
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Old November 24 2009, 10:38 PM   #110
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

TheBrew wrote: View Post
I didn't mean for their marriage to be "erased", but as an impetus for them to break up.
Christopher wrote: View Post
Or how about this: MJ's the one who gets shot rather than May. She pulls through, but Peter becomes convinced it's too dangerous for her to be around him, so he breaks up with her for her own protection. Or maybe he talks Dr. Strange into erasing everyone's memories of the marriage as well as his identity exposure, so that MJ and May will be safe and so he won't have to live with the pain of losing her. There are many ways they could've played it that would've made more sense than what they did.
The problem is these scenarios would not have accomplished editorial goals. Quesada said in several interviews the problem with the marriage is you can't
A) have him get divorced, because that makes him seem even OLDER than he is now, and the goal was to make him younger and "more relateable"
B) Kill off MJ, that makes Pete a widower, same problem.
Whether you agree with him or not, that is the criteria the story had to meet. Not saying I agreed with it, I liked married Peter, but that was what editorial wanted. So any "they should have done THIS" ideas have to fit in with the goals of editorial.
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Old November 24 2009, 11:03 PM   #111
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

EnderAKH wrote: View Post
The problem is these scenarios would not have accomplished editorial goals. Quesada said in several interviews the problem with the marriage is you can't
A) have him get divorced, because that makes him seem even OLDER than he is now, and the goal was to make him younger and "more relateable"
But he's just as old the way it was done. Reality wasn't actually altered to make Peter younger, it's just that people's memories of certain events were revised. So he's not actually younger, he's just acting more immature. In the scenario I proposed where Dr. Strange is the one who rewrites people's memories, the result is the same, but the setup isn't as stupid and offensive. It isn't the Devil convincing Peter to do something wildly out of character, it's Peter himself choosing to make the sacrifice for MJ's sake and turning to a fellow hero to get it done. Also it doesn't require the idiotic premise that all the superpowered beings in the whole Marvel universe are incapable of healing a simple gunshot wound, doesn't require making them all powerless in order to set up a contrived and unbelievable scenario.

B) Kill off MJ, that makes Pete a widower, same problem.
Did you miss the part where I said she survives?


Whether you agree with him or not, that is the criteria the story had to meet. Not saying I agreed with it, I liked married Peter, but that was what editorial wanted. So any "they should have done THIS" ideas have to fit in with the goals of editorial.
My point is that there were better ways of achieving the same goals.
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Old November 25 2009, 12:44 AM   #112
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

It's easy, have MJ be the one who got shot and then Mephisto appears. He tells Peter he'll heal her in exchange for their marriage, and Peter agrees. He gives up the best happiness he ever had in his life in order to save the source of that happiness.
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Old November 25 2009, 01:52 AM   #113
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

^Except it's still a deal with the devil, which is kind of anathema to the whole "hero" thing. And, again, it's completely illogical that the most brilliant minds, most powerful sorcerors, and most godlike cosmic entities in the Marvel universe couldn't fix a simple bullet wound even though they've been shown to be capable of far more miraculous feats in the past. And saying that it's just May's "time" doesn't cut it. It's a hollow excuse. If that were the case, then Mephisto shouldn't have been any more capable of changing May's fate than anyone else. It's grossly inconsistent, arbitrary storytelling. There's no legitimate reason why a deal with the devil would've been Peter's only possible recourse.
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Old November 25 2009, 01:59 AM   #114
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

Simple, that scene of all the world's minds and sorcerors turning Peter down was just an illusion created by Mephisto and Peter was just so desperate he believed it all.
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Old November 25 2009, 02:56 AM   #115
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

I think a simpler solution, if you want a reset, then reset the damn universe which is too big and too convoluted and plagued by too much continuity.

The new(ish) Spectacular Spider Man cartoon is a great story, a great take on the character. It's just the old story told in today's time with a few twists and tweaks. Nothing wrong with that, nothing to complain about, easy for new fans to jump in, easy for old fans to enjoy, and Pete is young and single which fulfills Qesada's requirements. Just do the same thing with the rest of the universe and move on.
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Old November 25 2009, 04:11 AM   #116
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

Or, given that they already had a young and single Spidey in the Ultimate and Marvel Adventures continuities, they could've just kept the 616-universe Peter happily married so that there would've been something to satisfy fans of both approaches. There's no logic in narrowing your potential audience.
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Old November 25 2009, 04:58 AM   #117
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

I would have liked to have seen them actually confront the marriage and get rid of it. After the death of May, and with the word being out on his identity, Peter and Mary Jane just can't handle being together anymore. Peter wants MJ back, so he does a few things to try to cover up his identity again. The groundwork was already being laid for that thanks to the Scarlet Spider Squad who had said that Peter was a team-mate of theirs who had been kicked out. Have Morlun absorb some of Peter's powers and, voila, no more Totem-Spider powers and he needs the web shooters again.
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Old November 25 2009, 05:44 AM   #118
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

I liked the stingers and extra powers he gained after "The Other"...
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Old November 25 2009, 09:26 AM   #119
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

The Other was pretty much rendered irrelevant like six months later...I'm not going to comment on the status of their marriage since I've already stated my displeasure with that decision in other threads.
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Old November 25 2009, 04:44 PM   #120
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Re: Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

Can we make a deal with the devil to erase Joe Q's dark reign at Marvel from history?
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