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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old November 23 2009, 08:32 PM   #16
bbailey861
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Re: Shatnerverse

It has been quite a while since I have read these books and while I certainly "got the Shatner/Kirk lovefest" going on, I don't remember being as disappointed as some of the readers that have posted comments here. I would like to hear the audio books, though.
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Old November 23 2009, 08:41 PM   #17
Paris
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Re: Shatnerverse

The only Shatnerverse book I ever bought was Ashes of Eden. At the time, I really enjoyed it. I've listened to the audiobook versions of book 2 to book 9 (Collision Course doesn't have one), and I agree that Shat's books are very Mary-Sue. With that being said, I still enjoyed the stories no matter how over the top they were. The best thing about them is the fact that Shatner reads them himself. It's like Kirk-prime lived on and told us the stories himself .
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Old November 23 2009, 11:43 PM   #18
KHAAAN!
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Re: Shatnerverse

Paris wrote: View Post
The only Shatnerverse book I ever bought was Ashes of Eden. At the time, I really enjoyed it. I've listened to the audiobook versions of book 2 to book 9 (Collision Course doesn't have one), and I agree that Shat's books are very Mary-Sue. With that being said, I still enjoyed the stories no matter how over the top they were. The best thing about them is the fact that Shatner reads them himself. It's like Kirk-prime lived on and told us the stories himself .
I like that . I was very unhappy (like a lot of people) and not satisfied with the way that Ron Moore ended with Kirk in Generations. It didn't feel like it was the right way to end with that character (not to start up that old debate again). I think the whole idea behind this series, for me at least, is a little fantasy that one of the greatest captain's in Starfleet history got a little better of an end story than the nonsense ending of Generations. Even if it doesn't fit in with the rest of Trek-lit, I still enjoy it on that level.
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Old November 24 2009, 12:05 AM   #19
seigezunt
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Re: Shatnerverse

KHAAAN! wrote: View Post
Paris wrote: View Post
The only Shatnerverse book I ever bought was Ashes of Eden. At the time, I really enjoyed it. I've listened to the audiobook versions of book 2 to book 9 (Collision Course doesn't have one), and I agree that Shat's books are very Mary-Sue. With that being said, I still enjoyed the stories no matter how over the top they were. The best thing about them is the fact that Shatner reads them himself. It's like Kirk-prime lived on and told us the stories himself .
I like that . I was very unhappy (like a lot of people) and not satisfied with the way that Ron Moore ended with Kirk in Generations. It didn't feel like it was the right way to end with that character (not to start up that old debate again). I think the whole idea behind this series, for me at least, is a little fantasy that one of the greatest captain's in Starfleet history got a little better of an end story than the nonsense ending of Generations. Even if it doesn't fit in with the rest of Trek-lit, I still enjoy it on that level.
Then you might like David George III's Kirk volume in his Crucible series. It takes on those events in a novel fashion, but without making Kirk superhuman, while still giving his story a great ending.
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Old November 24 2009, 12:10 AM   #20
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Re: Shatnerverse

KHAAAN! wrote: View Post
I was very unhappy (like a lot of people) and not satisfied with the way that Ron Moore ended with Kirk in Generations.
You know, that's almost refreshing. Generally, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga get blamed by default for everything people don't like about Trek, sometimes even when they had no involvement with it (like when people blame Braga for INS and NEM). And yet, even though GEN was scripted by Moore and Braga and co-plotted by Berman, Braga and Berman are the ones who don't get blamed for a change.
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Old November 24 2009, 12:34 AM   #21
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Re: Shatnerverse

I really enjoyed 'Collision Course', much to my surprise. Sure, it becomes rather implausible towards the end, but it's fun and exciting and the end scene is quite touching. I liked the world building.
The only other Shatnerverse book I've read was 'Avenger'. I don't remember much of it, apart from thinking that it suffered from 'small universe syndrome'.
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Old November 24 2009, 01:37 AM   #22
Captain Randy Hall
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Re: Shatnerverse

GeorgeKirk wrote: View Post
In my opinion, the Shatnerverse books are Mary Sue fanfic written by someone who actually portrayed a beloved character. The Kirk in those stories makes Chuck Norris look like Tinkerbell. They're what a Michael Bay Star Trek movie would look like, if Bay had a hardon for William Shatner instead of the US military.
It's interesting that the only characters we seem to want from a Trek actor is the character he/she played. When did Nichelle Nichols write a Spock novel? Or George Takei do a Kirk comic? The only one I can think of is Walter Koenig writing an animated episode called "The Ultimate Vulcan."

The Shatnerverse novels were also aided by the writing of Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. Sure, they centered on Kirk, but there was some good stuff mixed in throughout, IMHO.
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Old November 24 2009, 04:36 AM   #23
Lindley
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Re: Shatnerverse

seigezunt wrote: View Post
Then you might like David George III's Kirk volume in his Crucible series. It takes on those events in a novel fashion, but without making Kirk superhuman, while still giving his story a great ending.
That was a great short story padded out to novel length, honestly.

But then, the entire Crucible trilogy was made up of a few good ideas glued rather awkwardly together. McCoy was the only one of the bunch which really *needed* the "City" link at all.
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Old November 24 2009, 04:38 AM   #24
T'Ressa Dax
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Re: Shatnerverse

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Flying cars are a very bad idea unless they're computer-controlled. People have enough traffic accidents in two dimensions. And if a normal car breaks down, you can just pull over to the side of the road, rather than falling to a grisly death.

A car that can alternate between flying and running on the road would be the best compromise I think. If it's having trouble in the air you just switch back to wheels! <G> Okay, so that's J.D. Robb's solution, but I just had to mention it.
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Old November 24 2009, 04:40 AM   #25
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Re: Shatnerverse

Screw flying cars, just get more people involved with General Aviation. The prices would go down with economies of scale....
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Old November 24 2009, 04:50 AM   #26
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Re: Shatnerverse

I'd rather have bullet trains.
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Old November 24 2009, 05:14 AM   #27
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: Shatnerverse

Captain Randy Hall wrote: View Post
It's interesting that the only characters we seem to want from a Trek actor is the character he/she played. When did Nichelle Nichols write a Spock novel? Or George Takei do a Kirk comic? The only one I can think of is Walter Koenig writing an animated episode called "The Ultimate Vulcan."
And Koenig wrote a comic book centered around his character. As did Takei.
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Old November 24 2009, 05:22 AM   #28
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Re: Shatnerverse

Well, part of what actors do is to develop backstories for their own characters. And in general, they have to be focused on the characters they play as opposed to the characters played by other people. So it stands to reason that an actor would have more insights into his or her own character than into the other characters. That's their job -- to know their own characters inside and out. Knowing all the characters equally is more of a job for the writers, producers, and directors.
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Old November 24 2009, 06:18 AM   #29
Emperor-Tiberius
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Re: Shatnerverse

Christopher wrote: View Post
KHAAAN! wrote: View Post
I was very unhappy (like a lot of people) and not satisfied with the way that Ron Moore ended with Kirk in Generations.
You know, that's almost refreshing. Generally, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga get blamed by default for everything people don't like about Trek, sometimes even when they had no involvement with it (like when people blame Braga for INS and NEM). And yet, even though GEN was scripted by Moore and Braga and co-plotted by Berman, Braga and Berman are the ones who don't get blamed for a change.
Don't you worry, sir. I do blame them for GEN. Especially Braga and Moore, who had written "All Good Things" just before it.

At least Moore redeemed himself with some excellent writing in DS9, and with "Trials and Tribble-atons". What did Braga do? VOY and ENT... Nowhere near close Moore's brilliance in writing or plotting.
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Old November 24 2009, 06:30 AM   #30
Emperor-Tiberius
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Re: Shatnerverse

As for the Shatnerverse, I love it. Obviously, as my nick is derived from one of the characters in that series (the MU trilogy, in fact). The first trilogy was obviously the best, with AVENGER having the best plotting, but with the serious error of downsizing Picard's involvement in the Sarek story. ASHES is the most balanced one, and second best, whereas THE RETURN is the most fun one, but loses a bit credibility when Kirk wins a Klingon - and Worf no less (Worf, damn it!). SPECTRE, I like it better than RETURN, for its returns to ASHES's pace and the writing was just great. DARK VICTORY I liked, even though a lot of people didn't, and PRESERVER, I feel, needed a rewrite, as the first half is excellent, but the second half is trash. Complete trash. CAPTAIN'S PERIL, I thought, was good - a detective story where Kirk tries to solve a mystery and avenge his friend, CAPTAIN'S BLOOD was a nice follow-up to NEM, but a tad ridiculous, and CAPTAIN'S GLORY a reall good one, with an awesome epilogue thats an awesome cap for the character of Jim Kirk.

So, overall, I found them to be rather entertaining, and not any better or worse than any other Trek books. So to lower them or dismiss them as May Sue fanfics is a silly thing for me to do, as there are plenty of Trek novels that actually qualify as such, and have worse writing than this series (after all, the Reeves-Stevens give a hand), and suffer from the smae probs this is accused of having (the small-universe thing).

If anything, I'm especially fond of them, as they exposed me to Trek literature, and were a fun alternative to Trek movies at the time - I was reading the MU trilogy during INS's time, and it was such a relief to do so because of that film's suckiness. Plus, the stories rectified one of GEN's most unforgiveable of decisions, as per Kirk's death, and for that alone I consider them valid, in my eyes.
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"Spock...?" Kirk said, whispering.
"I am... most pleased to see again, Captain" Spock formally replied.
McCoy shook his head in disgust. "Oh, for crying out loud, Spock. Its been eighty years!"
"Seventy eight point four years, Doctor."

The Holy Three meet again, in The Return
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