Quick Star Trek VI quote question

[The Wormhole]

I've always heard "Nanclus" and this is the first time I know of when anyone has suggested otherwise.

[SRFX]

Something which has always bothered me about that scene: Why was the Romulan ambassador present during a TOP SECRET STARFLEET BRIEFING WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERATION AND SENIOR OFFICIALS.

Was this an oversight? Did the Romulans and the Federation have a mutual intelligence pact at this point (like in DS9)? Or some other diplomatic agreement?

It just seems odd that whilst Colonel West is delivering this clearly illegal rescue plan, the Romulan ambassador is just sitting there listening?

[Data Holmes]

SRFX wrote:

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Something which has always bothered me about that scene: Why was the Romulan ambassador present during a TOP SECRET STARFLEET BRIEFING WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERATION AND SENIOR OFFICIALS.

Was this an oversight? Did the Romulans and the Federation have a mutual intelligence pact at this point (like in DS9)? Or some other diplomatic agreement?

It just seems odd that whilst Colonel West is delivering this clearly illegal rescue plan, the Romulan ambassador is just sitting there listening?

I always assumed that they had an agreement with the romulans that they would be notified of any action taken against the klingons.

[The Wormhole]

SRFX wrote:

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Something which has always bothered me about that scene: Why was the Romulan ambassador present during a TOP SECRET STARFLEET BRIEFING WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERATION AND SENIOR OFFICIALS.

Was this an oversight? Did the Romulans and the Federation have a mutual intelligence pact at this point (like in DS9)? Or some other diplomatic agreement?

It just seems odd that whilst Colonel West is delivering this clearly illegal rescue plan, the Romulan ambassador is just sitting there listening?

Maybe the Federation and the Romulans were really working on becoming cozy allies at that point? Something that would clearly be screwed over by the later Tomed Incident.

That's always bothered me about that scene too. So I came up with that rationalization. It makes things interesting, anyway.

[Therin of Andor]

Data Holmes wrote:

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Was this an oversight? Did the Romulans and the Federation have a mutual intelligence pact at this point (like in DS9)? Or some other diplomatic agreement?

If you noticed, at the conference, the Vulcans all wore yellow sashes - and so did the Romulan delegation!

The Klingons wore red, neutral races wore green and all UFP members (except Vulcans) wore blue.

Therefore, between ST V and ST VI some kind of truce had seemingly formed between the Vulcans/UFP and Romulans. Nanclus was thought to be trusted, but was obviously working as a double agent.

[SRFX]

I didn't pay any attention to the sashes - they seemed arbitrary. But good point!

[Sky]

Therin of Andor wrote:

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The closed captions read, "Romulan... Ambassador... Nanclus...", confirming what my ears had always heard in the theatrical cut during its cinema run.

Although many fans will still claim to hear "... and others" instead of "Nanclus".

I could swear I have seen "... and others" in closed captioning somewhere. Have to check my old DVD when I get the time.

[Therin of Andor]

Sky wrote:

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I could swear I have seen "... and others" in closed captioning somewhere. Have to check my old DVD when I get the time.

Try the original single disk version. It has the same cut as was originally released on VHS. I don't own that version on DVD, but it's possible the captions say "... and others", hence the ongoing controversy among fans. (But "... and others", of course, infers that Spock and Kirk still have no definitive list of suspects when they invade the conference. Anyone could still be their enemy. Kirk wanted that list of names, and that's why Spock did the mindmeld.) It's not the theatrical cut, though, of course, but an extended video version that was on VHS and on TV.

Caption writers don't always hear correctly, nor go back to the script. For example, in Robert Wise's commentary to his Director's Edition of ST:TMP, the captions mishear the venue of that film's premiere not as "the Smithsonian" but as "the Swiss Odeon". Similarly, captions are often truncated or reinterpreted, to give the essence of a scene's dialogue to match the speed of the action.

The "Collector's Edition" two-disk set of ST VI has the then-newly-intercut visuals of Cartwright, Chang and Nanclus during the mindmeld, but Spock and Valeris's voices are cut off sharply after the words "Romulan Ambassador".

And the most recent release is the theatrical version (for the first time). And those captions definitely say "... Nanclus". As does the original shooting script.

[Voyagerian]

The Wormhole wrote:

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Maybe the Federation and the Romulans were really working on becoming cozy allies at that point? Something that would clearly be screwed over by the later Tomed Incident.

That's always bothered me about that scene too. So I came up with that rationalization. It makes things interesting, anyway.

We saw in TNG's 'Sins of The Father' that Mogh uncovered evidence of Romulan collusion with the House Of Duras...one House, granted, but theoretically there could have been others....and this was but in the mid-24th century...