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Old November 7 2009, 10:38 PM   #16
GhostFaceSaint
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
TNG: I used to like Picard, but now I flat-out despise him. He's just a holier-than-thou ideological mouthpiece. Of the TNG crew, I can't say I really LOVE any of the characters, but Data was pretty interesting.
So TNG hasn't aged well for you either, huh. What is it that bothers you is it the lack of interpersonal friction, which makes things kind of dull and unrealistic, or, is it something else? (Though I don't agree with you about Kirk at all.)
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Old November 7 2009, 10:40 PM   #17
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

It's a combination of the lack of depth to the characters (part of which may be the lack of interpersonal friction) and the unbelievably PC holier-than-thou attitude exhibited by the crew, especially Picard.
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Old November 7 2009, 10:45 PM   #18
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

Yeah, I agree with you. I hope the new moves continue to veer away from perfect one and two dimensional characters, I prefer a character with flaws and three dimensional growth.
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Old November 8 2009, 01:55 AM   #19
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

What remains to be seen is if and how the characters we saw in Trek XI will grow--especially nuKirk, who is quite the arrogant little snot. nuSpock shows promise, but I'm not sure about the rest of the cast yet. But we'll only know with Trek XII!
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Old November 8 2009, 04:14 AM   #20
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

TOS: Yeah Kirk is my favorite, though Spock is often very close. Admittedly, some of this the typical guy thing of "this guy gets all the women, carries himself with poise, is smart AND has a swagger about him?! Can I have what he's drinking?"

TNG: Had to be Picard...followed by - would ya believe it - Bev Crusher. Always like eps. where she gets the lead, or gets to take on a challenge, or solve a mystery, like "Remember Me."

DS9: It's ironic, that despite the shows' conscious attempt to do things different than its predecessors, I still wound up liking the shows' big three - Odo, Kira and Sisko - the most. And Sisko is my favorite of the bunch, and my favorite character in all of trek (as an aside, I never really got all the Garak-worship. He's more like a gimmick to more; the DS9 equivalent of Newman on Seinfeld. He's not even in my top five of recurring characters. He did have some interesting moments and lines though).

Voyager: Cross between B'elanna and the doctor, followed by seven, tuvok - and THEN Janeway. Though I like Mulgrew.

ENT: T'Pol. Jolene Blalock is underrated, imo. Reed would be second. Archer did very little for me.
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Old November 8 2009, 02:48 PM   #21
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

OldManDax wrote: View Post
TOS: Yeah Kirk is my favorite, though Spock is often very close. Admittedly, some of this the typical guy thing of "this guy gets all the women, carries himself with poise, is smart AND has a swagger about him?! Can I have what he's drinking?"
You see, that's the difference between the male and female response to the character of Jim Kirk. See the scene between Jadzia and Sisko in Trials and Tribble-ations, that said it all. Men are usually like: "Ooh, he gets all the women, he is a god, I want to be like him!" and most of the women are like: "Kirk? Who? Ah, the guy with Spock?... oooh, Spock "

OK, I know, I know... There are also plenty of women who do like Kirk. But trust me, his irresistibility is vastly overrated.

But this is really why I never could really warm up to Kirk in TOS... he struck me more as a male fantasy of what they'd like to be, than a real person and someone one could relate to. He got much better in the movies, though, when he was allowed to show that he was not perfect and to be more realistic and human.

In TOS, Spock was my favorite by far - he is at least 60% of the reason why I like TOS, and Spock-centric episodes in which we got to see his inner conflict and his emotional self that he tried to suppress, were always highlight of the show. McCoy was also great, and I have to say I always had a soft spot for Uhura and felt that she should have gotten better treatment by the writers. Kirk was not even close to being my favorite (he fares much better in the movies, as I said - in the movies, he is my favorite next to Spock.

TNG - this may be the only Trek show where the captain has a shot of being my favorite - or one of my two favorite main characters. In the end, Data is probably my favorite on TNG, but Picard is close, only because Patrick Stewart is such a great actor. Thing is, I have a love/hate relationship with Picard... well, maybe like/dislike more than love/hate. He epitomizes the best and worst of TNG - the worst being that holier-than-thou attitude that always put me off while watching TNG. However, Stewart managed to elevate every episode and scene he was in, and to give Picard real depth and make me relate to him nevertheless.

DS9 - Sisko is my favorite captain. I prefer Stewart to Brooks, but I like Sisko better than Picard, and certainly better than the other 3 captains. However, Sisko is not my favorite on DS9, because DS9 had so many great characters, and there were some others I loved more than Ben. If I made my top 10 Trek characters, the first 6 or 7 places would consist of Spock and a bunch of DS9 characters. Kira was always my favorite, followed by Odo, Dukat, Garak, and then Quark and Sisko.

VOY - I don't hate Janeway and I don't love Janeway - I'm just indifferent to her. Which is pretty much how I feel about the show itself. Generally, the VOY bunch are a bit bland for me. My favorite characters are The Doctor, Tuvok and Seven. Tom and B'Elanna are OK but nothing special, and Janeway is there somewhere - not the best of the bunch and not the worst (that would be Neelix, Chakotay and Kim).

ENT - I hated Archer the first time I watched the pilot. After I decided to give the show another chance, I found he didn't bother me that much. He can be a real moron, but at least he has flaws and isn't written to be perfect, and I'm starting to kinda like him. But I'm still in season 1, so it's too early to tell which characters I'll like the most.


Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
TOS: Spock or McCoy--Kirn was an arrogant womanizer in my opinion. This goes for both version of Kirk.

TNG: I used to like Picard, but now I flat-out despise him. He's just a holier-than-thou ideological mouthpiece. Of the TNG crew, I can't say I really LOVE any of the characters, but Data was pretty interesting.

DS9: Sisko I generally like a LOT. He gets edged out by Kira and Gul Dukat, but BARELY. He's the best captain of the bunch, though!

VOY: Ugh, Janeway. Not written as a consistent, competent commander at all. The Doctor is a more interesting character, I think.

ENT: Archer was badly, badly miscast. And I really hate saying that because I adored Scott Bakula, but I think the man is much better cast in "softer," more "emotional" roles like on Quantum Leap, or kids' movies (both of which I loved him in). He doesn't have sufficient gravitas to come off as a credible captain. As for the other characters of ENT...well, I checked out sometime in season 2, so I can't really say that anyone else stuck out. (If I rewatched Seasons 3 and 4, maybe I'd change my mind...dunno.)
I agree. He doesn't really have the charisma and presence required.

Who would you have cast as Archer?
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Old November 8 2009, 06:42 PM   #22
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

I forgot to say something about Trek XI. I really like Kirk, but my favourites are Spock and Pike (who's also a captain, so there.).
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Old November 8 2009, 07:05 PM   #23
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

Yes Kirk for me
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Old November 8 2009, 07:17 PM   #24
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

The captain isn't my favorite character in any of the series, either.

TOS: I liked Kirk, but McCoy and Spock were my favorites. I especially liked the scenes with the two of them together.

TNG: Picard was a little too pompous for my tastes. I don't really have a favorite TNG character. I liked Riker in the early seasons, but not so much towards the end.

DS9: I love The Sisko (and he's my favorite Trek captain), but Quark and O'Brien are my two favorite DS9 characters.

VOY: As with TNG, I have a tough time naming a favorite, but it's definitely not Janeway. Didn't care for the character or Mulgrew's acting.

ENT: Trip would be my favorite. Archer did improve as the series went on, but he never really caught my fancy.
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Old November 8 2009, 07:19 PM   #25
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

why isn't the captain not your favourite
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Old November 8 2009, 08:14 PM   #26
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

TOS: I love Kirk, he was a package deal. Love the back story built for him at the starfleet museum site.

TNG: Patrick Stewart is the best actor, both Worf and Data grew the most. The longer we saw Worf, in both TNG and DS9, the more interesting he became. There as something about Riker in the first season, like he just might push Picard out the airlock.

DS9: Sisko just came off as a ass. Continuation of Worf being best. The relationship between Odo and Kira was nice.

VOY: Kes in the begining, I felt she was a strong presense on board. Later Seven, like Data she grew and changed. I see Janeway as someone who was experiencing psychological problems from the stress she was under, this accounts for her inconsistency.

ENT: For me ENT was always about Tucker and T'Pol. Their relationship and watching it grow - that was the A story, that weeks episode was the B story. I don't dislike Archer as much as some, in my eyes he's suppost to be incompetent, viewed as that viewpoint the character makes perfect sense.


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Old November 8 2009, 10:14 PM   #27
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I agree. He doesn't really have the charisma and presence required.

Who would you have cast as Archer?
Well, I'm truly not sure about that--I would love to see suggestions.

I do admit, though, I have a fantasy of seeing what Marc Alaimo would do if given a true good-guy role to play...
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Old November 8 2009, 10:17 PM   #28
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

There are more other characters than captains, so it's normal that the captain might never be your favorite.

TOS - No contest. Spock.

TNG - Not a big fan, but I liked Data the best I spose.

DS9 - My favorites tend to be the recurring characters but of the main characters, it's Kira.

VOY - Not a big fan, but I liked EMH the best I spose.

ENT - No contest. Trip.
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Old November 9 2009, 03:39 AM   #29
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
I agree. He doesn't really have the charisma and presence required.

Who would you have cast as Archer?
Well, I'm truly not sure about that--I would love to see suggestions.

I do admit, though, I have a fantasy of seeing what Marc Alaimo would do if given a true good-guy role to play...
Somehow I had a feeling you would say that...

You're not the first to suggest that on TrekBBS, and it's a really interesting idea, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't have been weird - Trek does recycle actors a lot, but his voice is so recognizable, plus he spent a lot of season 7 practically without makeup. :-/

But anyway, why not give the man a big, substantial good guy role for once? Maybe even (shock! surprise!) as a human? Stupid typecasting. Do you know what they offered him on ENT, as far as I've heard? A Nausican on "Fortunate Son" which he turned down because there's even more makeup than for a Cardassian, but if you've seen the episode, you know that both Nausican roles in the episode are bleh, pretty much anyone could have played them. I'm guessing it was the captain, an antagonist speaking over the comm link - been there, done that. Of course he declined. No need to bother with getting into that makeup for those kind of roles.
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Old November 9 2009, 03:46 AM   #30
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: The Captain is never my favorite

What would be really remarkable, in my opinion, would be to see how drastically he could change his entire tone and demeanor. He always seemed to have very exacting control over both, and I suspect he could very easily project a different sort of character if he wished.

One thing that's really remarkable is just how much a different demeanor can change a person's appearance. For instance, I have even seen some screenshots of Dukat that are virtually unrecognizable at first due to the change in demeanor that he has in his few "good" moments.

Also, to give you an idea of what I picture as this AU Archer's basic look and demeanor, I found this pic of Marc Alaimo that is amazing for how different it is from how Dukat carried himself...

http://mario.lapam.mo.it/ds9/gifs/MarcAlaimo02.jpg

This too:

http://www.lolitafatjo.com/images/ac...arc_alaimo.jpg
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