Star Trek: Titan - Synthesis: Discuss / Grade <SPOILERS> - Page 3

Nerys Ghemor · November 4 2009, 09:03 PM

JD wrote:

Doesn't most of the stuff in NF? Now I don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the series, but you've got to admit it's not exactly the most realistic of the Treks.

That's why I hate NF--it's a frakking parody, and shouldn't even be marketed as real Trek.

James Swallow · November 4 2009, 09:12 PM

Paris wrote:

But this is a Synthesis thread, so I'll let us get back on topic...

Indeed; allow me to assist...

First, thanks for all the positive commentary, chaps. And as I’m here, I’ll address some points...

Ayelbourne wrote:

I got a kick out of all those little references to other Sci-Fi Franchises, like leafs on the wind, moons that are not moons but space stations, or machine ghosts.

Yeah, I went there. There’s always a few nerd-gags in everything I do. No-one’s found the LOLcat or Flight of the Conchords references yet?

I'm generally not a fan of technobabble solutions, especially when they are used in crucial situations. So the dekyon field solution during the attack on Titan bugged me.

I didn’t see that as a technobabble solution, more of using the right tool for the right job – like, say, using silver to kill a werewolf...

I would have preferred if the Titan avatar had remained on board instead of White-Blue. Nothing against White-Blue, I liked it, but I think having Titan become an actual character to develop would have held more potential.

I always intended that the avatar would leave the ship at the end of the story, to achieve (as Judith Sisko rightly says elsewhere in this thread) a state of synthesis in order to save the day. I recall Marco Palmieri and I briefly discussing the idea of keeping her around, but we both agreed it was going over ground Peter David was already treading in New Frontier. The avatar’s final sacrifice is poignant and makes her more human, I feel.

Regarding Zurin Dakal...

I was a bit disappointed that his relationship with Hriss (or was it Hsuuri?) that seemed to start in SoD wasn't even mentioned.

In all honesty, I just didn’t have time to get to it.

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

Just one question...was it just his hand/arm that was mangled by the transporter, or did he have other internal damage as well?

Both. Being Cardassian, he suffered through it stoically. The avatar helps him heal by reintegrating the mis-beamed elements when he returns to the Titan.

My one quibble, though, comes with the cover art

I had no input on the art, and to be honest I think it’s rather misleading; but there’s this old adage about book covers and not judging...

Defcon · November 4 2009, 10:05 PM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

JD wrote:

Doesn't most of the stuff in NF? Now I don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the series, but you've got to admit it's not exactly the most realistic of the Treks.

That's why I hate NF--it's a frakking parody, and shouldn't even be marketed as real Trek.

Yeah, because heaven forbids that there's diversity in the Trek line.

It's sad that so many people forget that all the Book Only series everyone loves so much most likely wouldn't be represented so prominent without NF breaking the ice for them.

backstept · November 4 2009, 10:07 PM

damn! there's a new one out!

yay

Dark Gilligan · November 4 2009, 10:36 PM

Defcon wrote:

Yeah, because heaven forbids that there's diversity in the Trek line.

Diversity is one thing, a series devoted to PAD's injokes is quite another. It seems rather self-serving.

Nerys Ghemor · November 5 2009, 01:51 AM

Dark Gilligan wrote:

Defcon wrote:

Yeah, because heaven forbids that there's diversity in the Trek line.

Diversity is one thing, a series devoted to PAD's injokes is quite another. It seems rather self-serving.

BINGO. It's...well, fanwanking. In a pretty literal sense.

BTW, to Mr. Swallow, I actually think not acknowledging that potential "relationship" with Hsuuri (or Hriss?) was a good move and I'm glad you didn't fix them up.

I just don't think he was ready and I truly couldn't see them as a couple, either. Tolerance and even appreciation of others and their cultural values is one thing and Zurin seems VERY good at that (I LOVED his setting the whole "crustacean vs. arachnid" thing straight!)...being a couple is a whole other animal.

I'm not sure who I see him with, though. On the other hand, I don't think everybody HAS to be "with" somebody in order to be a complete person, either. He's young and possibly has a lifespan longer than a human would--he's got more than enough time to relax and wait for the right person to come along.

Defcon · November 5 2009, 09:18 PM

Dark Gilligan wrote:

Defcon wrote:

Yeah, because heaven forbids that there's diversity in the Trek line.

Diversity is one thing, a series devoted to PAD's injokes is quite another. It seems rather self-serving.

An the only reason the series is running for more than 12 years now, and has outlived series that started way later, is because S&S wants to stroke PAD's ego by giving him an outlet for his "self-serving" jokes, not because it's successful, well written Trek fiction, or what?

You two don't enjoy it, fine, but that's no reason to say it isn't Trek like Nerys Ghemor did.

Turtletrekker · November 5 2009, 10:45 PM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

...shouldn't even be marketed as real Trek.

If Charlie's Angels and The Love Boat can co-exist in the same universe as Fantasy Island, If the X-Files can co-exist in the same universe as the Law and Order franchise and still be "real", then New Frontier can co-exist with the other Trek series and still be considered "real" Star Trek as well.

Dark Gilligan · November 5 2009, 10:46 PM

Never said I didn't enjoy PAD's work, but he can get carried away with himself at times. A strong editor could keep him reigned in when needed but I've often felt that PAD simply does his own thing.

Nerys Ghemor · November 6 2009, 02:04 AM

Turtletrekker wrote:

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

...shouldn't even be marketed as real Trek.

If Charlie's Angels and The Love Boat can co-exist in the same universe as Fantasy Island, If the X-Files can co-exist in the same universe as the Law and Order franchise and still be "real", then New Frontier can co-exist with the other Trek series and still be considered "real" Star Trek as well.

What?! Those are all separate series under different names and franchises entirely. How does that have any bearing on Star Trek, which is all one united franchise?

If NF were labeled as a parody of Star Trek, that would be one thing. But it simply does not fit in with any of the other series; it's just one author's self-indulgence, far more like the Hitchhiker's Guide than a Star Trek novel.

Christopher · November 6 2009, 02:44 AM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

Turtletrekker wrote:

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

...shouldn't even be marketed as real Trek.

If Charlie's Angels and The Love Boat can co-exist in the same universe as Fantasy Island, If the X-Files can co-exist in the same universe as the Law and Order franchise and still be "real", then New Frontier can co-exist with the other Trek series and still be considered "real" Star Trek as well.

What?! Those are all separate series under different names and franchises entirely. How does that have any bearing on Star Trek, which is all one united franchise?

He's referring to crossover episodes between those shows. There was a Charlie's Angels episode set on the ship from The Love Boat, and there was a mutual crossover between TLB and Fantasy Island. And Detective Munch from Law and Order: SVU (who was originally in Homicide: Life on the Streets) once appeared in an episode of The Lone Gunmen, a spinoff of The X-Files.

CaseyF · November 6 2009, 04:36 AM

Christopher wrote:

He's referring to crossover episodes between those shows. There was a Charlie's Angels episode set on the ship from The Love Boat, and there was a mutual crossover between TLB and Fantasy Island. And Detective Munch from Law and Order: SVU (who was originally in Homicide: Life on the Streets) once appeared in an episode of The Lone Gunmen, a spinoff of The X-Files.

Actually, it was an episode of The X-Files featuring the origin of the Lone Gunmen (it aired a few years before they got their spin-off).

And just to chime in on the NF discussion, I'm a long-time PAD fan and I love the unique voice he brings to the Trek universe.

And slightly more on-topic, I'm also a Titan and James Swallow fan, and am looking forward to Synthesis. Which I've yet to have a chance to read.

JD · November 6 2009, 04:45 AM

Christopher wrote:

And Detective Munch from Law and Order: SVU (who was originally in Homicide: Life on the Streets) once appeared in an episode of The Lone Gunmen, a spinoff of The X-Files.

A fun little fact: As of his upcoming appearance on on Paris enquêtes criminelles (the French adaptation of L&O: Criminal Intent, he will hold the record with for the most appearances of a single actor as the same character on different TV show. He actually holds the record now at eight, but it will be an even bigger record (obviously) after this next appearce.

Turtletrekker · November 6 2009, 05:43 AM

Christopher wrote:

And Detective Munch from Law and Order: SVU (who was originally in Homicide: Life on the Streets) once appeared in an episode of The Lone Gunmen, a spinoff of The X-Files.

Actually, it was a Lone Gunmen centered episode of the X-Files called Unusual Suspects, not an episode of TLG.

http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Unusual_Suspects

Paris · November 6 2009, 07:28 PM

My local Chapter's finally got their copies in, and I've got it now. I've already started another trek book (SGR: Oblivion), so I've got a decision to make...

. I'll be back once I've read it

Pegaritaville · November 7 2009, 09:37 PM

It took buying three copies (the first was left on my boat and is stuck in winter storage and the second copy was destroyed when I accidently left it outside), but I finally finished the book.

Anyway, it was worth the extra time and money. Normally I'm not a big fan of stories involving AI sentience, but I enjoyed this one. White-Blue really grew on me. Not enough to completely erase my AI bigotry, but enough to make me hope the character becomes a regular in the Titan series.

Geoff Thorne · November 8 2009, 04:22 AM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

Dark Gilligan wrote:

Defcon wrote:

Yeah, because heaven forbids that there's diversity in the Trek line.

Diversity is one thing, a series devoted to PAD's injokes is quite another. It seems rather self-serving.

BINGO. It's...well, fanwanking. In a pretty literal sense.

BTW, to Mr. Swallow, I actually think not acknowledging that potential "relationship" with Hsuuri (or Hriss?) was a good move and I'm glad you didn't fix them up.

I just don't think he was ready and I truly couldn't see them as a couple, either. Tolerance and even appreciation of others and their cultural values is one thing and Zurin seems VERY good at that (I LOVED his setting the whole "crustacean vs. arachnid" thing straight!)...being a couple is a whole other animal.

I'm not sure who I see him with, though. On the other hand, I don't think everybody HAS to be "with" somebody in order to be a complete person, either. He's young and possibly has a lifespan longer than a human would--he's got more than enough time to relax and wait for the right person to come along.

It was Hsuuri and it was never meant to be an undying soul connection (just something for other writers to pick or not as they chose). I agree, those are rare and, on TITAN at least, most people seem to realize that shipboard romance is best kept casual and brief.

Quite enjoying Mr. Swallow's yarn so far. I really love this ship and this crew. So far it seems the other writers do as well.

Nerys Ghemor · November 8 2009, 05:18 AM

For some reason I just picture Cardassians having a hard time with the concept of "casual and brief." When they go into a relationship, from what I've observed, it seems to be very serious. So, personally I just figured Dakal would rather be single than go into a fling that he knew wasn't going to be permanent.

I'm not so sure shipboard romance HAS to be a fling, though--but it takes two very committed parties, and I'm not sure how many of the cultures there, besides Cardassians (and I'm not even really counting humanity) accept that concept anymore.

But then I'm old-fashioned. I like marriage stories, seeing people in it for the long haul and really putting the work into the relationship to make it last. (Which is one reason I like Riker/Troi.) Maybe that's one reason I identify with Cardassians--they seem to look at things the same way. (Dukat doesn't count. That man was SICK.)

fleetcaptain · November 8 2009, 12:15 PM

I have been enjoying this book so far. Couldn't stop reading the book at all this week. I was like I'm going to end it before I even get a chance to write something or whatever.

I'm glad to see that Pava has been getting more time again. I'm just waiting to see if someone will eventually mention her Omega Squad teammates at some point.

ToddCam · November 9 2009, 05:18 PM

^That'd be great! I would love to find out where Decker, T'Priell, and Astrun wound up.

The look of the novel is very misleading. I had it sitting around at work, and everyone who saw it would start, then see the Star Trek logo, and then tell me that they were shocked with the idea of me reading a trashy romance novel.

Oh, and great book!