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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 22 14.38%
Above Average 55 35.95%
Average 48 31.37%
Below Average 21 13.73%
Poor 7 4.58%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old October 21 2009, 04:39 AM   #76
kipron
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

The production itself was quite impressive especially for a TV movie. Nice camera work and editing, nice direction and wife on the part of Olmos. Even the smallest guest roles were generally well acted. Lots of cool little references back to S1/2.

But still I'm gonna say Average, and here's why:

Cavil's Plan, which is supposed to underpin the whole series, is ridiculously convoluted and self-defeating. He's supposedly trying to destroy the fleet (not very effectively), and at the same time he wants to watch in glee as the FF suffer a human life until they beg for his forgiveness. The opposition of these two goals doesn't make sense, even for someone driven by petulant emotions.

Moreover, I'm not convinced that someone who hates himself and humanity so much, would be so willing to play the role of a petulant human, AND willingly engage in the human trait of deceit. If he hates being what he is, why does he stick around in a place where he's constantly reminded of it? Seems like a better (and more believable) path for Cavil would've been complete ambivalence towards humanity, to go off into the stars and evolve into something else..

Also, there are simply more elegant plans out there. The idea that Cavil was looking for Earth all along, that the apocalypse was just a rouse to get humanity to fulfill the prophecy and find Earth..now THAT is a Plan. And until they said otherwise, it still could've been.

There were other little niggles too. They go to the trouble of working in the elephants from Downloaded, which is a really neat little link. But at the same time they didn't work that in to Gaeta's handshake in KLG?! We still don't know what it was that he handed to Boomer just before she shot Adama..I thought they were going to reveal that he gave her an elephant or something.

imho, it just goes to show that sometimes things are better left a mystery. in this case because the explanations they came up with, are sometimes a bit too mundane and don't really explain EVERYTHING anyway. and so the few things still don't quite track, stand out a bit more..

Finally, Shelley Godfrey will always be a manifestation of HeadSix. At least to me.

All that said, we *did* find out who RealSix met on Caprica. That's something.
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Old October 21 2009, 12:24 PM   #77
flux_29
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Does anyone know when the plan is out on dvd in the uk/europe?
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Old October 21 2009, 12:44 PM   #78
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

kipron wrote: View Post
The production itself was quite impressive especially for a TV movie. Nice camera work and editing, nice direction and wife on the part of Olmos. Even the smallest guest roles were generally well acted. Lots of cool little references back to S1/2.

But still I'm gonna say Average, and here's why:

Cavil's Plan, which is supposed to underpin the whole series, is ridiculously convoluted and self-defeating. He's supposedly trying to destroy the fleet (not very effectively), and at the same time he wants to watch in glee as the FF suffer a human life until they beg for his forgiveness. The opposition of these two goals doesn't make sense, even for someone driven by petulant emotions.

Moreover, I'm not convinced that someone who hates himself and humanity so much, would be so willing to play the role of a petulant human, AND willingly engage in the human trait of deceit. If he hates being what he is, why does he stick around in a place where he's constantly reminded of it? Seems like a better (and more believable) path for Cavil would've been complete ambivalence towards humanity, to go off into the stars and evolve into something else..

Also, there are simply more elegant plans out there. The idea that Cavil was looking for Earth all along, that the apocalypse was just a rouse to get humanity to fulfill the prophecy and find Earth..now THAT is a Plan. And until they said otherwise, it still could've been.

There were other little niggles too. They go to the trouble of working in the elephants from Downloaded, which is a really neat little link. But at the same time they didn't work that in to Gaeta's handshake in KLG?! We still don't know what it was that he handed to Boomer just before she shot Adama..I thought they were going to reveal that he gave her an elephant or something.

imho, it just goes to show that sometimes things are better left a mystery. in this case because the explanations they came up with, are sometimes a bit too mundane and don't really explain EVERYTHING anyway. and so the few things still don't quite track, stand out a bit more..

Finally, Shelley Godfrey will always be a manifestation of HeadSix. At least to me.

All that said, we *did* find out who RealSix met on Caprica. That's something.
In other words, you vote that it's average because the explanations we got were not those you wanted?
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Old October 21 2009, 05:01 PM   #79
vampgrrl
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

I think Cavil is like a child...he doesn't understand humanity at all. He's a child with a temper that happens to have nuclear weapons.

Or worse, like an immature child who is highly intelligent...but has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. And as far as I know he was never mistreated by humans assuming the Cavil mind was never taken from a non human body.
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Old October 21 2009, 05:17 PM   #80
Checkmate
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

vampgrrl wrote: View Post
I think Cavil is like a child...he doesn't understand humanity at all. He's a child with a temper that happens to have nuclear weapons.

Or worse, like an immature child who is highly intelligent...but has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. And as far as I know he was never mistreated by humans assuming the Cavil mind was never taken from a non human body.
That's exactly what it is.

His main complaint in the last season of the show was that all his hatred was focused on the fact that the Final Five made him in the image of an old, used-up man. When instead he wanted to be a giant robot of awesomness with superpowers like x-ray vision and darkmatter-olfactory senses.
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Old October 21 2009, 05:26 PM   #81
vampgrrl
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

He reminds me in a way of Agent Smith from the Matrix. Human beings are a disease...etc
Completely irrational...but no one ever said Hitler was the model of stable mental health either so I guess its not that far fetched.
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Old October 21 2009, 06:57 PM   #82
Ayelbourne
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

TheGhoulBen wrote: View Post
Ayelbourne wrote: View Post
Did anyone catch on to the fact, that the elephant that Cavil used as a trigger for Boomer, was the same one that stood on the table in her apartment in Downloaded?
I remembered something about wooden elephants on Caprica but I couldn't remember if they were in Boomer's apartment or in Kara's.
The cool thing is, it gives HeadBaltar's line to Caprica Six "Start with the elephant" an interesting new subtext.
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Old October 21 2009, 08:43 PM   #83
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

I just finished watching it. The first part was cool, the second part was great character developement - for the two cavils and the simons. And I want the soundtrack for this
So I guess that's why they switched to agressive so soon (well, a year...) after declaring truce. GalacticaCavil went back and took over the operation. But Deanna seemed to be more in charge during the first half of season 3, so I dunno, maybe he nagged the 3s into agressiveness, and when she went crazy, he took charge personally. The attack in Crossroads pt2 was certainly in his style...
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Old October 21 2009, 08:51 PM   #84
Candlefright
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

What was the point of keeping the final five Cylons on the resurrection ship? If they died and downloaded would Cavil have killed them? Or wiped their memory and put them back on the fleet for his amusement (wiping their minds each time and they keep getting killed by people spotting them as Cylons)?

Also, did Cavil kill the boy cos he was tired of him, or cos he was called John?
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Old October 21 2009, 08:58 PM   #85
flux_29
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Candlefright wrote: View Post
What was the point of keeping the final five Cylons on the resurrection ship? If they died and downloaded would Cavil have killed them? Or wiped their memory and put them back on the fleet for his amusement (wiping their minds each time and they keep getting killed by people spotting them as Cylons)?
They were originaly sent to the colonies to teach them a lesson so when they resurected, cavil would be proven right and the final five wrong.
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Old October 21 2009, 09:43 PM   #86
Checkmate
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Kinda makes you wonder what he was expecting would happen by the time he was banging his mother on New Caprica.
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Old October 21 2009, 09:57 PM   #87
IndyJones
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Checkmate wrote: View Post
It's also why the series seemed to be so aimless for a good stretch of its run. Because it effectively was. Cavil was forced to make it up as he went -- he hadn't planned on a contingency for the initial genocidal assault to fail and the first half of the series was him trying to bring his plan back on course.

I felt this was the best part of the movie. It works, and I can believe it.

Now, if only we can change the intro to, "And they had a plan..."
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Old October 22 2009, 01:27 AM   #88
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

So BSG gets its Phantom Menace and prequel trilogy all wrapped into 2 hours.

It's very clear that The Plan is created with a great deal of reverence and respect for the series. It tries -- desperately sometimes -- to make the series itself into something coherently profound (as opposed to the often disjointed result of RDM making things up as he went along). But as many Star Wars fans discovered, the nebulous past of Darth Vader was much, much more intriguing than the specifics of a saccharine-sweet boy, an impetuous, arrogant, emo-teen, and an insecure young husband and soon-to-be father.

I give The Plan credit for going to great lengths to try and fill in the blanks left by the original series. I was entertained for most of it. And I think, overall, it's a better product than most of seasons 3 & 4. But at the end of the day, I'm wondering if it was worth it? The revelations weren't especially profound. And the specifics sometimes seemed to mundane too be worthy of a two-hour film.

Still, for fans of the series (and even for me, a fairly vocal critic), it was an entertaining and thoughtful coda ... something that should remind everyone why, for two years at least, BSG was one of the better shows on television.
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Old October 22 2009, 03:21 AM   #89
Candlefright
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

Checkmate wrote: View Post
Kinda makes you wonder what he was expecting would happen by the time he was banging his mother on New Caprica.
Reminds me of the Joe Dirt scene...

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Old October 22 2009, 03:57 AM   #90
Gep Malakai
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Re: The Plan - Grading & Discussion

vampgrrl wrote: View Post
I think Cavil is like a child...he doesn't understand humanity at all. He's a child with a temper that happens to have nuclear weapons.

Or worse, like an immature child who is highly intelligent...but has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. And as far as I know he was never mistreated by humans assuming the Cavil mind was never taken from a non human body.
Cavil's utter failure to understand human emotions and why other people weren't acting the way he wanted them to seemed autistic, to me. He's very intelligent but with a narrow emotional scope.
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