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Old October 7 2009, 03:40 AM   #31
Yoda
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Re: Furries

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Oh boy ... I must say, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of understanding with which furry fandom is met here. I guess I expected Trek fans to be a little more open-minded ...
To be fair, I'm a completely normal nerd stereotype myself.

That is the angry, grumpy, bitter "if you don't watch Battlestar Galactica you're an idiot" kind of nerd. Kind of like a shorter Dwight Schrute... with somewhat better social skills and no weird beet farm upbringing
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Old October 7 2009, 03:41 AM   #32
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Re: Furries

Yoda wrote: View Post
Here's what I think about furries: You're a bunch of weirdos.
To each their own. What you call weird is considered normal by others. What you consider normal may be considered weird by others. Those are very fluid terms.

I don't buy that the 'sexual' side of it is overstated. I assume that you *fap* to it. But even if you didn't, instead of being mildly disturbed by the concept, I'd still think being a furry is a bit silly and lame.
Okay. Some people consider Star Trek lame. Look how people who are heavily into computers are lambasted. As for the sexual side, that is in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure some people do, just like the Trek fans who *fap* to Kirk/Spock fiction.

I didn't see any CSI episode about it, it's largely based on what I've seen on the Internet without actually looking for it.
So the internet... serious business?

This 'other cultures' use anthropomorphism crap doesn't jive with me either. When I've seen that kind of stuff it's usually in some sort of mythological context. That's a little different than a ripoff Disney-style fox... with tits.

I don't feel bad about my stereotyping. When the Comic Con folk roll into town every year they're basically a parade of ridiculous stereotypes.
In general, any fan convention is full of stereotypes, and always fodder for people who don't like that kind of fandom. I understand that.

hideous618 wrote: View Post
Furry fandom, or whatever you want to call it, is usually defined more by the sexual images.

First, though, I'll hit the non-sexualized images. I don't care if you like them, it's not different than liking any picture.
That's rather broad. Any kind of image can garner a specific reaction. If I were looking at a picture and you couldn't see it, would you just assume it's a picture? Or would you angle your head around to see what it might be? A picture is never just a picture.

Sexualized animal pictures is, to me, completely bizarre and borderline deviant. If you're into that, fine, but it's not exactly normal to find other animals arousing just because you throw a pair of breats on them. And, no, comparing it to a Twi'lek or a Klingon doesn't standup. For one thing, Klingons and Twi'leks are not real AND they're played by regular ol' human beings. You're objectifying animals and making them into sex objects.
The image in my avatar is an anthropomorphic image. What do you notice about her? She has human features. All of the indicators for human attraction is there: breasts, human proportioned hips, legs, facial features, and in this case she's supposed to be sentient and self aware. What attracts people to Klingons/Vulcans/Romulans/Andorians/etc? Think about it.

Now, letme put it another way: WHY? Why would you want to make animals sexually charged? Is it some sort of artistic statment? What's the appeal if it's not sexual?
It can be anything. Surely you don't consider something to be represented only if it's sexual. There would be no point in any other kind of art if that were so. I love artistic style, colors, social and political statements, personal meaning can be attached. Fantasy, fiction, imagination, all of this is tied into anthro art. The sexualized aspects are heavily unbalanced, as they are seen the most frequently by those who don't get involved in the fandom, but there is a lot of what you would consider legitimate furry art out there.


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Old October 7 2009, 03:45 AM   #33
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Re: Furries

Yoda wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Oh boy ... I must say, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of understanding with which furry fandom is met here. I guess I expected Trek fans to be a little more open-minded ...
To be fair, I'm a completely normal nerd stereotype myself.

That is the angry, grumpy, bitter "if you don't watch Battlestar Galactica you're an idiot" kind of nerd. Kind of like a shorter Dwight Schrute... with somewhat better social skills and no weird beet farm upbringing
With large parts of Battlestar Galactica being about humans having sex with machines I'm actually surprised you're not more tolerant towards furries.
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Old October 7 2009, 03:46 AM   #34
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Re: Furries

Elephants Graveyard wrote: View Post
I'm just surprised the thread's lasted this long without reference to M'Ress.
*gasp*

I can't believe I forgot to mention M'Ress.


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Old October 7 2009, 03:47 AM   #35
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Re: Furries

Jay O'Lantern wrote: View Post
Elephants Graveyard wrote: View Post
I'm just surprised the thread's lasted this long without reference to M'Ress.
*gasp*

I can't believe I forgot to mention M'Ress.


J.


And you call yourself a furry...
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Old October 7 2009, 03:50 AM   #36
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Re: Furries

Elephants Graveyard wrote: View Post


And you call yourself a furry...
I am so ashamed!
I've got to turn in my ID card, ears and tail!

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Old October 7 2009, 03:55 AM   #37
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Re: Furries

As a furry myself, it's safe to say that a lot of what I would associate with the more "mainstream" furry movement raises my eyebrows, though I don't feel it's appropriate for me to judge, particularly if everyone involved is providing consent and nobody is being harmed.

That being said, as with many other movements, the furry fandom is plagued by the fact that the more extreme members tend to be the ones who also attract the greatest degree of media coverage and hence lead to exaggerated stereotyping.

No reporter would use me as an example of the fandom because I would fail to be entertaining.

Looking beyond the bad publicity, I think our greatest problem is the horrifying mediocrity of most furry fiction and artwork.
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Old October 7 2009, 03:56 AM   #38
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Re: Furries

I see much in furry fandom that is similar to Science Fiction fandom in general..
there's a lot of non-sex orented fandom there..
an example can be found at the following..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maB7r...eature=related
and Trek related as well
http://startrekanimated.com/tas_art_bruffy02.jpg
however, there is that other element ..
http://img.slate.com/media/80000/803...Spock-Kirk.jpg


and that "other element" does not make all fans of any sort of fandom..perverted..
does it?

BTW I'm not a furry fan, just an old Trek fan..
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Old October 7 2009, 03:58 AM   #39
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Re: Furries

DonIago wrote: View Post
As a furry myself, it's safe to say that a lot of what I would associate with the more "mainstream" furry movement raises my eyebrows, though I don't feel it's appropriate for me to judge, particularly if everyone involved is providing consent and nobody is being harmed.

That being said, as with many other movements, the furry fandom is plagued by the fact that the more extreme members tend to be the ones who also attract the greatest degree of media coverage and hence lead to exaggerated stereotyping.

No reporter would use me as an example of the fandom because I would fail to be entertaining.
Yep. Because I don't walk around in a fursuit talking about yiffing other fursuiters, a reporter wouldn't come within a mile of me, either. It's all about ratings and what brings them in. Nice, normal folks don't do that. Guy who walks around sniffing other people's crotches? Yep. Girl with Spock ears talking about how she's going to have a Klingon child someday? Yep.

Evil brain sucking bug wrote: View Post
I see much in furry fandom that is similar to Science Fiction fandom in general..
there's a lot of non-sex orented fandom there..
an example can be found at the following..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maB7r...eature=related
and Trek related as well
http://startrekanimated.com/tas_art_bruffy02.jpg
however, there is that other element ..
http://img.slate.com/media/80000/803...Spock-Kirk.jpg


and that "other element" does not make all fans of any sort of fandom..perverted..
does it?
If it does, then every person alive who ever liked anything fiction is in serious trouble.

J.
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Old October 7 2009, 04:01 AM   #40
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Re: Furries

hideous618 wrote: View Post
Sexualized animal pictures is, to me, completely bizarre and borderline deviant. If you're into that, fine, but it's not exactly normal to find other animals arousing just because you throw a pair of breats on them. And, no, comparing it to a Twi'lek or a Klingon doesn't standup. For one thing, Klingons and Twi'leks are not real AND they're played by regular ol' human beings. You're objectifying animals and making them into sex objects.
I get where you're coming from–sort of–but I think you're underestimating the amount of human in the average furry character. It's a lot more than "sticking boobs on an animal" and calling it good. Furry characters (the sexy ones, at least) obey almost all the rules of drawing a realistic human character: the breakdown of the body, limb and head proportions is human and the structure of the hips, shoulder girdle, neck, (often) eyes, upper legs and arms is human. They have a lot more in common, conceptually, with Klingons and Twi'leks than you're admitting, being essentially human frames augmented with spots, hair, flaps, fold, scaled, ridges funny ears or all of the above.

It is, deviant, though, socially. As to whether it's psychologically disturbed...well, my therapist seems to think I'm okay in this area. Pretty messed up in other areas, but the furries seem to be okay.

hideous618 wrote: View Post
Now, letme put it another way: WHY? Why would you want to make animals sexually charged? Is it some sort of artistic statment? What's the appeal if it's not sexual?
The non-sexual stuff appeals because it looks cool. I don't really know how to explain it, beyond this kind of art makes sense. Human-styled animals look "right," and have since I was a kid and spent hours reading Calvin and Hobbes or watching Disney cartoons.

As for the sexiness, it's the same sort of thing. Tails and ears and big, limpid cartoon animal eyes are cute and cuddly, thanks to years of association. It makes more sense to me than having a thing for Klingons, precisely because animal characteristics actually exist and are more "real" than freaky fantasy beings that have no reference point to reality.
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Old October 7 2009, 04:01 AM   #41
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Re: Furries

Jay O'Lantern wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
As a furry myself, it's safe to say that a lot of what I would associate with the more "mainstream" furry movement raises my eyebrows, though I don't feel it's appropriate for me to judge, particularly if everyone involved is providing consent and nobody is being harmed.

That being said, as with many other movements, the furry fandom is plagued by the fact that the more extreme members tend to be the ones who also attract the greatest degree of media coverage and hence lead to exaggerated stereotyping.

No reporter would use me as an example of the fandom because I would fail to be entertaining.
Yep. Because I don't walk around in a fursuit talking about yiffing other fursuiters, a reporter wouldn't come within a mile of me, either. It's all about ratings and what brings them in. Nice, normal folks don't do that. Guy who walks around sniffing other people's crotches? Yep. Girl with Spock ears talking about how she's going to have a Klingon child someday? Yep.
Now you have something to aspire to.
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Old October 7 2009, 04:02 AM   #42
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Re: Furries

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Yoda wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Oh boy ... I must say, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of understanding with which furry fandom is met here. I guess I expected Trek fans to be a little more open-minded ...
To be fair, I'm a completely normal nerd stereotype myself.

That is the angry, grumpy, bitter "if you don't watch Battlestar Galactica you're an idiot" kind of nerd. Kind of like a shorter Dwight Schrute... with somewhat better social skills and no weird beet farm upbringing
With large parts of Battlestar Galactica being about humans having sex with machines I'm actually surprised you're not more tolerant towards furries.
Oh God! You're giving the furries ideas. They're gonna build busty fox robots and get jiggy!
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Old October 7 2009, 04:02 AM   #43
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Re: Furries

DonIago wrote: View Post
Now you have something to aspire to.
Ha. Yeah.

Wait...which part? The "being a nice respectable member of the furry community" part or the "guy walking around in a fursuit sniffing crotches" part? This is something I need to know.



J.
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Old October 7 2009, 04:05 AM   #44
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Re: Furries

I must admit...I think it's pretty weird, and I don't really get it.

Scifi fans, I get. Usually there are movies or TV shows or books that generate such fandoms.....and it's the personalities of the characters in those media (or the personalities of the actors, possibly) as well as the storylines of those movies, TV shows and books that tend to generate the interest. Not the lifeless images of the initially rendered characters on a page or computer screen. Scifi fandom centers around storylines and characters - what is underneath those simple rendered images. The look of the character and the costume is very much secondary to the personality of the character and the storyline that character is involved with.

As I understand Furry fandom, it's about the images and the suits. And to me, that feels sort of empty of meaning...and makes me wonder what the draw could be, if it was not some sort of bizarre sexual thing.

That said....I think alot of scifi fans take fandom too far as well. I mean, there is a REASON they made Trekkies, you know? And there is a reason why the fans waiting on line for Star Wars were such an easy target for Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

I love scifi and Star Trek...but when a person decides he needs to learn Klingon as a second language, it's time to put down the remote and go get some fresh air. And when a woman moves into a particular apartment, just so she can see the the roof of Brent Spiner's house on a good day...it's time to go get some frakkin' THERAPY.
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Old October 7 2009, 04:09 AM   #45
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Re: Furries

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
I must admit...I think it's pretty weird, and I don't really get it.

Scifi fans, I get. Usually there are movies or TV shows or books that generate such fandoms.....and it's the personalities of the characters in those media (or the personalities of the actors, possibly) as well as the storylines of those movies, TV shows and books that tend to generate the interest. Not the lifeless images of the initially rendered characters on a page or computer screen. Scifi fandom centers around storylines and characters - what is underneath those simple rendered images. The look of the character and the costume is very much secondary to the personality of the character and the storyline that character is involved with.

As I understand Furry fandom, it's about the images and the suits. And to me, that feels sort of empty of meaning...and makes me wonder what the draw could be, if it was not some sort of bizarre sexual thing.
It's just the fantasy of it all. Take me for instance: I have a close kinship with animals and nature in general. My faith is a part of that, so the evocation of human sentience in animal form is an outlet of that. I want to draw furry art. I have no real interest in drawing furry art with sexual connotations, I want to draw it in more of a religious/mystic connotation, the idea that we are a part of mother earth, a part of nature. I believe animals have souls. That is a major part of what drives me in that regard.

For example, I love this kind of stuff:



This is anthro art.

That said....I think alot of scifi fans take fandom too far as well. I mean, there is a REASON they made Trekkies, you know? And there is a reason why the fans waiting on line for Star Wars were such an easy target for Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

I love scifi and Star Trek...but when a person decides he needs to learn Klingon as a second language, it's time to put down the remote and go get some fresh air.
I can understand the sentiment. Too much of anything, even good, can be unhealthy. It's important to balance it out.

J.
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