How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivors?

Mirren Audax · October 6 2009, 06:32 PM

It occured to me the other day that there might be a bit of Vulcan head-scratching to explain the presence of two Spocks to other Vulcans who survived their world's destruction.

As many of them would still be in denial about time travel - as we saw in Enterprise - how might Sarek go about this?

Islander · October 6 2009, 06:46 PM

First, time travel is no longer denied by the Vulcan science in TOS time.

Second, it would be easy to have him pass as a relative to Sarek (like an older brother). It's not like there is any paper trail of is existence/non-existence anyway since the whole planet blew up.

iguana_tonante · October 6 2009, 06:55 PM

Old Spock will call himself Selek, a distant cousin of Sarek's family.

OneBuckFilms · October 6 2009, 06:59 PM

Spock Prime has no reason to conceal his identity or any of the events in which he was involved.

M · October 6 2009, 07:03 PM

vigilia_ognissanti wrote:

Old Spock will call himself Selek, a distant cousin of Sarek's family.

Beat me to it.

JarodRussell · October 6 2009, 07:14 PM

They'd probably go nuts about a time traveller who's not even trying to correct a big fucking fuck up in the timeline.

Franklin · October 6 2009, 07:32 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

They'd probably go nuts about a time traveller who's not even trying to correct a big fucking fuck up in the timeline.

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline. There's nothing to correct. NO-THING. The timeline from which Spock Prime came is still there, it's past intact and still going along swimmingly as the 25th century approaches.

I think he'd come clean about himself, then as is insinuated in the movie, throw himself into the task of recreating Vulcan culture and society. Just having everyone know he's Spock from another timeline doesn't affect much.
Of course, how much he could affect the future with his knowledge of the events from his timeline is problematic and the topic of numerous other threads.

Admiral Buzzkill · October 6 2009, 07:52 PM

Old Spock has no reason to reveal his presence or any of the events in which he was involved.

The man arguably has certain knowledge of the future which would be enormously valuable, if one continues the pretense that there is a "Prime Universe" from which the new Trek continuity has diverged. He knows of the existence of species that the Federation does not yet, celestial events and phenomena ("there's a big probe that's going to want to talk to your humpback whales, it'll get here in about a quarter century and you might want to get working on that") and so on. If other people become aware of him, he'll quickly lose control of his own destiny.

JarodRussell · October 6 2009, 08:04 PM

Franklin wrote:

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

Nerys Myk · October 6 2009, 08:13 PM

Crossing the Galactic barrier BAD!!!!!
Space amoeba
Kodos is Karidian
Doomsday Machine
No Colonies on Cestus III
Arrest Heingist
V'ger is coming
Whale Probe is coming
DNR stick on Botany Bay
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Nerys Myk · October 6 2009, 08:14 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Franklin wrote:

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

They could do that to prevent any number of disasters in the Prime Universe. Yet they haven't.

Franklin · October 6 2009, 08:21 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Franklin wrote:

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

True. And not to hijack the thread, but what you're saying would not be correcting a timeline so it goes back to being as it should be (City being the best TOS example). Going back in time from within the new timeline to prevent Vulcan from being destroyed is truly changing the future. Not correcting, changing. It's not like it may not be able to be done, but doing it to change history, even for the better, is a different ethical question altogether.

JarodRussell · October 6 2009, 10:37 PM

Nerys Myk wrote:

JarodRussell wrote:

Franklin wrote:

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

They could do that to prevent any number of disasters in the Prime Universe. Yet they haven't.

Because most of those disasters are not caused by time travellers fucking with your timeline. They are 'natural', so to speak.

Nerys Myk · October 6 2009, 10:47 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Nerys Myk wrote:

JarodRussell wrote:

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

They could do that to prevent any number of disasters in the Prime Universe. Yet they haven't.

Because most of those disasters are not caused by time travellers fucking with your timeline. They are 'natural', so to speak.

Why would that matter?

JarodRussell · October 6 2009, 10:55 PM

It's like a Prime Directive thing. First of all it was Spock's mistake to begin with. He took way too much red matter with him, and he didn't destroy the ship when he knew Nero was going to catch him. 6 billion lives destroyed because of a time travel accident, and Spock has the knowledge to undo that damage. We know that, because he stuff like that in the timeline where he comes from.

October 6 2009, 06:32 PM	#1
Mirren Audax Lieutenant Location: Edinburgh	How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivors? It occured to me the other day that there might be a bit of Vulcan head-scratching to explain the presence of two Spocks to other Vulcans who survived their world's destruction. As many of them would still be in denial about time travel - as we saw in Enterprise - how might Sarek go about this? __________________ "Best Speed to Genesis!"

October 6 2009, 06:46 PM	#2
Islander Commodore Location: In a remote corner of your sick mind	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor First, time travel is no longer denied by the Vulcan science in TOS time. Second, it would be easy to have him pass as a relative to Sarek (like an older brother). It's not like there is any paper trail of is existence/non-existence anyway since the whole planet blew up. __________________ "I kept the Vulcan and married the woman, 'cause I didn't think Leonard would have it the other way around." -Gene Roddenberry

October 6 2009, 06:55 PM	#3
iguana_tonante Vice Admiral Location: Italy, EU	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor Old Spock will call himself Selek, a distant cousin of Sarek's family. __________________ Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.

October 6 2009, 06:59 PM	#4
OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor Spock Prime has no reason to conceal his identity or any of the events in which he was involved.

October 6 2009, 07:14 PM	#6
JarodRussell Vice Admiral	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor They'd probably go nuts about a time traveller who's not even trying to correct a big fucking fuck up in the timeline.

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October 6 2009, 07:52 PM	#8
Admiral Buzzkill The Man Location: Defying Gravity	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor Old Spock has no reason to reveal his presence or any of the events in which he was involved. The man arguably has certain knowledge of the future which would be enormously valuable, if one continues the pretense that there is a "Prime Universe" from which the new Trek continuity has diverged. He knows of the existence of species that the Federation does not yet, celestial events and phenomena ("there's a big probe that's going to want to talk to your humpback whales, it'll get here in about a quarter century and you might want to get working on that") and so on. If other people become aware of him, he'll quickly lose control of his own destiny. __________________ I had steak and a loaded baked potato for dinner on Sunday. As a steak I enjoyed it a lot, but as macaroni and cheese I thought it was disappointing.

October 6 2009, 08:13 PM	#10
Nerys Myk Admiral Location: House of Kang, now with ridges	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor Crossing the Galactic barrier BAD!!!!! Space amoeba Kodos is Karidian Doomsday Machine No Colonies on Cestus III Arrest Heingist V'ger is coming Whale Probe is coming DNR stick on Botany Bay Praxis SPOCKS CHECKLIST __________________ Nerys Myk's Midnight In Never Land A novel of Dark Fantasy @ Amazon.com

October 6 2009, 10:55 PM	#15
JarodRussell Vice Admiral	Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor It's like a Prime Directive thing. First of all it was Spock's mistake to begin with. He took way too much red matter with him, and he didn't destroy the ship when he knew Nero was going to catch him. 6 billion lives destroyed because of a time travel accident, and Spock has the knowledge to undo that damage. We know that, because he stuff like that in the timeline where he comes from.