Star Trek TNG Remastered?

[QuasarVM]

Man, I can't believe they are entertaining the idea of redoing the TNG effects. Only year one and two really need it...but whateverrrr...I won't be buying them.

[Joshua Howard]

^ If TNG was remastered, I wouldn't rule out buying the set; but in all honesty, I do not find TNG graphics to be lacking.

Graphics has always been welcome in Star Trek, but it has not defined the franchise. Judging TOS or TNG by the graphics is like judging a book by its illustrations; a rather childish and unimaginative approach.

In the end, the stories are what really matter. TNG is welcome to stay exactly as it is.

[Jefferies]

^^ I don't think you understand what this thread is saying? No one desperately WANTS the effects redone. That's simply not the point. The effects HAVE to be redone if HD of TNG is ever to become a reality. You might feel, "meh, who needs HD?" and you're entitled to this opinion but that doesn't mean people who see it differently are "childish".

[Cheapjack]

3D Master wrote:

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Are you telling me, that the HD releases of Star Trek movies aren't the films released in HD, but they've taken the SD DVDs and upscaled them!?

I don't buy that. The films after all are at resolutions far higher than HD. They wouldn't upscale a DVD release. There'd be massive outcry over that, they'd damage their reputation as movie company.

They have. Wikipedia it or try high def digest or tweaktown. There's a thread about it on this forum in 'movies'. Only ST2 was taken from the film. There's stills on the web. They look very sharp-edged, but lack detail, They're very clever fakes.

My bet is they're doing this with all the other movies they show on the HD channels.

They think we're stupid.

[MvRojo]

trevanian wrote:

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At a drive-in? How else could you not notice how out of place it looked?

I noticed it, but I've let it bother me.

[Doug Otte]

Cheapjack wrote:

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They have. Wikipedia it or try high def digest or tweaktown. There's a thread about it on this forum in 'movies'. Only ST2 was taken from the film. There's stills on the web. They look very sharp-edged, but lack detail, They're very clever fakes.

My bet is they're doing this with all the other movies they show on the HD channels.

They think we're stupid.

Well, somebody here is stupid.

Cheapjack, you keep trying to post this misinformation in Trekweb. It's just not true. The BDs were made from HD masters. They were just not scanned at the currently-used 4K resolution, and they have the old DVD DNR and EE applied. Understand?

Doug

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Jefferies wrote:

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No one desperately WANTS the effects redone. That's simply not the point. The effects HAVE to be redone if HD of TNG is ever to become a reality.

Exactly. I personally think TNG's effects look fine. But that's not what's at stake here. Redoing them is compulsory if TNG were to be shown in HD. It is literally unavoidable. It is completely, indisputably, obviously, irrevocably impossible to make TNG in HD if you keep the existing effects. Because of that one dreaded word: videotape.

[Cheapjack]

Doug Otte wrote:

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Well, somebody here is stupid.

Cheapjack, you keep trying to post this misinformation in Trekweb. It's just not true. The BDs were made from HD masters. They were just not scanned at the currently-used 4K resolution, and they have the old DVD DNR and EE applied. Understand?

Doug

Are you working for Paramount, or something? Try searching the web. There's a review in High Def Digest and there's information on wikipedia. Only ST2 was taken from film. All the rest are using a computer algorithm to fill in the dots. It's an estimation of what's there, not what's really there. It's a con, basically, as an upscaling player could do just the same. And DNR isn't very good, according to tweaktown.

[Jefferies]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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Exactly. I personally think TNG's effects look fine. But that's not what's at stake here. Redoing them is compulsory if TNG were to be shown in HD. It is literally unavoidable. It is completely, indisputably, obviously, irrevocably impossible to make TNG in HD if you keep the existing effects. Because of that one dreaded word: videotape.

Actually, I'm not sure how correct I was with this assumption. On another board I read that the seperate elements that were used to compose the FX were filmed on 35mm film and merely assembeld into the actual FX on videotape. Now, in theory this could mean that these elements can be reasembled in HD, depending on how cost effective this would be compared to redoing all the FX with CGI. You can read the original source here: http://www.dvdtown.com/messageboard/topic/8274/3/0 (this link was also posted earlier in this thread by jefferiestubes8).

[Doug Otte]

Cheapjack wrote:

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Are you working for Paramount, or something? Try searching the web. There's a review in High Def Digest and there's information on wikipedia. Only ST2 was taken from film. All the rest are using a computer algorithm to fill in the dots. It's an estimation of what's there, not what's really there. It's a con, basically, as an upscaling player could do just the same. And DNR isn't very good, according to tweaktown.

OK. I went to highdefdigest.com and found the reviews for each of the original 6 movies. I browsed the PQ sections. Nowhere does that reviewer state that the movies were taken from DVD resolution masters. There is some hyperbole where he guesses that VI came from an old DVD master. However, the review for III clearly states: "Paramount has taken an older HD master (perhaps struck for the DVD or broadcast) and applied some digital tweaking to try to clean it up." Note that it's acknowledged that it's an HD master.

It's been acknowledged all along (including by me, in your "swizz" thread) that old HD masters, which had too much DNR applied, were used. That's not the same as DVD-resolution that's been upconverted. For years, they've been creating transfers of films at 2K, and the masters used (even for DVD) were at 1080 resolution.

Here's a thread which I found very authoritative:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=5222

I've always agreed w/ you that the BDs don't looks as good as they could. I'm objecting to your continued assertion that they were sourced from DVD-level masters and were upconverted.

Doug

[trevanian]

Jefferies wrote:

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I read that the seperate elements that were used to compose the FX were filmed on 35mm film and merely assembeld into the actual FX on videotape. Now, in theory this could mean that these elements can be reasembled in HD, depending on how cost effective this would be compared to redoing all the FX with CGI.

MOST of the vfx elements were shot on 35mm, but by no means all of them. LOUD AS A WHISPER (which could be thrown away entirely in my opinion) has skeleton models for phaser hits shot directly on video.

[Jefferies]

trevanian wrote:

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MOST of the vfx elements were shot on 35mm, but by no means all of them. LOUD AS A WHISPER (which could be thrown away entirely in my opinion) has skeleton models for phaser hits shot directly on video.

This means then that they have a large archive of FX material that they could use instead of redoing everything. Now the question is, how feasible would that be?

[jefferiestubes8]

Jefferies wrote:

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This means then that they have a large archive of FX material that they could use instead of redoing everything. Now the question is, how feasible would that be?

Jefferies [no relation to screen name...] Even if TPTB were to do a TNG-R they would have to reconform all of the 35mm original camera negative of the live action stuff first.
If they were to try to pull the 35mm visual FX material (model shots) it would be a lot more work plus they would have to telecine shots and then do new CGI visual effects and then composite it.
I've said before on this other thread:

models built for the TNG feature films but sticking to this thread if they remaster ST:TNG and recreate all of the ship shots and visual effects I can assure you it is easier for them to do ALL of them in CGI for consistency. The animators could just refer to the original show for camera angle and ship movement.
Even if they could locate the original camera negative of the 6ft. ship model for each shot and telecine to HD and then adding the CGI stars and phasers anyway would negate using the film source to do it in a timely manner.

Multiple CGI models have been built of the Enterprise-D already.
This post discusses them and has pictures. This post has additional info without pictures.
If a TNG-R were to be done it is just much simpler to do all space exteriors in CGI. For the purists they can watch the original visual effects done with models mostly (in 480i standard def. unconverted to 1080P HD) with some branching feature on the Blu-ray.

[Jefferies]

jefferiestubes8 wrote:

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Multiple CGI models have been built of the Enterprise-D already.
This post discusses them and has pictures. This post has additional info without pictures.
If a TNG-R were to be done it is just much simpler to do all space exteriors in CGI. For the purists they can watch the original visual effects done with models mostly (in 480i standard def. unconverted to 1080P HD) with some branching feature on the Blu-ray.

This is all good and interesting information you are giving and makes me hopeful that TNG-R will become a reality soon. However, the Eden FX models would most certainly not be used in a remastering by CBS. This is unfortunate, but the same happened in the case of TOS-R, where Eden FX produced a far superior model of the original Enterprise for the ENT episode "In A Mirror, Darkly". Nonetheless, I'm quite prepared to accept CGI of lesser quality if that means we can have TNG in HD and I think thats the opinion of many.

[jefferiestubes8]

Jefferies wrote:

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but the same happened in the case of TOS-R, where Eden FX produced a far superior model of the original Enterprise for the ENT episode "In A Mirror, Darkly".

Does anyone have screen grabs of this? In 480pixel resolution or 1080pixel?


Edit:
I found these
NCC-1764 USS Defiant
http://www.durfee.net/startrek/ENT_4.html
scroll down to "In A Mirror, Darkly" for a screengrab

and here is a Youtube video length 4:38
'Escape of TOS Defiant'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm63K_tkkFc