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View Poll Results: Are Actives slaves?
Yes 23 58.97%
No 16 41.03%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 27 2009, 03:11 AM   #31
FPAlpha
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Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
One of the recurring points on Dollhouse is that many people assert that the Actives are slaves. Even if they volunteered for it, they say no one can sign a contract that makes them a slave.

I would disagree that the Actives are slaves at all, at least not in principle. (There is evidence in "Echoes" that at least some Actives were extorted into joining. It seems that if the Rossum Corporation catches someone snooping too close to one of their secret projects, they offer them a choice of a 5 year contract with the Dollhouse or bringing them up on criminal charges.) But lets assume that, aside from a few unsavory exceptions, most Actives joined the Dollhouse willingly. Are they slaves?

I would argue that they're no more slaves than any other working person. All they are doing is leasing the use of their body to the Dollhouse for a substantial monetary fee. Are the Actives made to do things they would not otherwise do? Sure, but so does pretty much everyone. I'm sure a cashier would rather be doing something else but they do it because they are paid to and they prefer working over starving.

So why the consistent references to slavery? A slave is someone who is owned by someone else and does not benefit from the fruits of their own labor. If the Actives volunteer, are paid well, and get their bodies back after the contract expires, how can they be slaves?
Yes.. sure they sign the contract willingly but who says Rossum or the Dollhouse didn't actively engineer circumstances so they could get the person to sign on?

Once they have signed and underwent the procedure they basically have lost all willpower and ability to make decisions.. no one knows where they are and they don't remember having signed anything since their mind is reset after each assignment.

If the Dollhouse decides to keep an Active past contract date who will object? The Active can't and i don't know if the management staff is so ethical to release one of their best Actives who makes them a ton of money.

So for all intents and purposes it is slavery for me since past aquisition they lose every control over their life and have no say over how they are being used.
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Old September 27 2009, 03:12 AM   #32
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Are actives slaves? No

Are people idiots for using actives as hostage negotiators and covert operatives? Yes.

Is the show asinine? Yes.
Agh! I hate it when people steal my answer (word for word pretty much.)

The ratings guarantee that this show will be cancelled soon, so there's no point belaboring things, but just for the record: the way to have done this show right is to have "dolls" who would sign on the dotted line, not because they are naive, manipulated or dumb (any of which will cause the audience to hold them in contempt for being incompetent at running their own lives) but because there is something so awfully wrong with them that doll-hood is actually a preferable choice.

The only people who would want to be dolls are the criminally insane - but who retain enough grip on reality to realize they are thoroughly dysfunctional and have zero chance that their condition will improve. (Their backstory can include thorough and futile medical treatment that would arrive at this conclusion. Maybe the Dollhouse can provide this treatment and extend the offer of doll-hood only to those who legitimately cannot be cured.)

For people like that, negation of the self is the only good option. Doll-hood should be the absolute last resort before suicide.

Also, the lead character should be some scruffy, big hulk of a guy - think Gerard Butler - so that there will be no nauseating tendency to treat the lead character as a poor widdle victimized girl. Nobody's going to shed tears over Gerard Butler who used to be a serial killer who did stuff that would make Quentin Tarantino violently ill, before his identity was wiped clean, but we might find it interesting to see he can maintain doll-hood and hold that other nasty guy at bay.

Plus, if you want someone to go kick butt, you're going to hire a big, buff guy with ninja assassin skills, not a skinny little waif with the same ninja assassin skills. There was an interesting series in here somewhere, but Whedon's icky erotic fixation on victimized females sabotaged it. I don't mind icky, but that's a boring and trite kind of icky.

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; September 27 2009 at 03:23 AM.
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Old September 27 2009, 03:55 AM   #33
FPAlpha
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Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Yeah.. but having that small stick of a woman suddenly go ninja on your ass tends to surprise people.. a lot!

Everybody is loking at that hulk of a man who in real life is just a florist and nobody notices that 5"2' girl slipping into perfect strike position
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Old September 27 2009, 06:22 AM   #34
David cgc
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Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The only people who would want to be dolls are the criminally insane - but who retain enough grip on reality to realize they are thoroughly dysfunctional and have zero chance that their condition will improve. (Their backstory can include thorough and futile medical treatment that would arrive at this conclusion. Maybe the Dollhouse can provide this treatment and extend the offer of doll-hood only to those who legitimately cannot be cured.)

For people like that, negation of the self is the only good option. Doll-hood should be the absolute last resort before suicide.

Also, the lead character should be some scruffy, big hulk of a guy - think Gerard Butler - so that there will be no nauseating tendency to treat the lead character as a poor widdle victimized girl. Nobody's going to shed tears over Gerard Butler who used to be a serial killer who did stuff that would make Quentin Tarantino violently ill, before his identity was wiped clean, but we might find it interesting to see he can maintain doll-hood and hold that other nasty guy at bay.
So, in other words, you want Alpha to be the star of the show.
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Old September 27 2009, 08:18 AM   #35
Sci
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Re: Are "Dolls" slaves?

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
But they chose to be temporarily put into that childlike stupor.
But they are denied the ability to change their minds.

Freedom means exactly that -- freedom. You're not free if you're physically prevented from making new choices.
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