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Old September 25 2009, 10:37 PM   #16
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Timby wrote: View Post
deep characterizations, character-centric plots, occasional story arcs / recurring plotlines, and -- for a time, anyway -- the ever-important romantic tension between the leads.
Which all used to be absolute anathema to the very concept of L&O....

That was my favorite bit: L&O was absolutely character-proof - there *was* no characterization. That's why I liked it so much - the story was literally everything. If Mr. Spock was a TV show, he would be L&O.

And I still haven't forgiven CI for getting rid of the doink-doink and text captions.
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Old September 25 2009, 10:42 PM   #17
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

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Keeping that in mind, it's expensive to keep a show on the air for eight years -- escalator clauses in actors' contracts call for yearly salary increases, union crew members' expenses go up, etc.
Yep. This is why most shows that don't get cancelled tend to wrap up after 5 or 7 seasons, and why most of the shows that run longer are ones with heavy cast turnover (for instance, Smallville, beginning its 9th season tonight, has only two of its original leads remaining). This is why Power Rangers changes its entire cast on an annual basis.
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Old September 25 2009, 10:43 PM   #18
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
That was my favorite bit: L&O was absolutely character-proof - there *was* no characterization. That's why I liked it so much - the story was literally everything.
There were some rumors that Chris Noth wasn't re-upped on the mothership show because he became too popular on a "character-proof" show.

On a side note:

John Mulaney stand-up comedy bit about Law & Order

Another John Mulaney stand-up comedy bit about Law & Order

Last edited by Aragorn; September 25 2009 at 11:14 PM.
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Old September 25 2009, 10:53 PM   #19
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Aragorn wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
That was my favorite bit: L&O was absolutely character-proof - there *was* no characterization. That's why I liked it so much - the story was literally everything.
There were some rumors that Chris Noth wasn't re-upped on the mothership show because he became too popular on a "character-proof" show.
Hmmm. I always thought it was just because he didn't get on with Dick Wolf. Oh well, I liked Logan better on CI anyway. (One of the reasons I hope CI gets it in gear for DVD release, so they'll get to the Logan episodes...)
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Old September 25 2009, 11:02 PM   #20
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

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Hmmm. I always thought it was just because he didn't get on with Dick Wolf.
That was precisely it -- Noth was becoming incredibly popular, and a bit of it was starting to get to his head. Nothing insane, though -- I think he simply requested that his salary be put in line with Jerry Orbach's, and in the meeting with Wolf, he cited Logan's popularity with fans as a reason.

Wolf said, "Fuck you, this is my show and it's bigger than any actor. Go pound sand."
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Old September 25 2009, 11:17 PM   #21
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Aragorn wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
That was my favorite bit: L&O was absolutely character-proof - there *was* no characterization. That's why I liked it so much - the story was literally everything.
There were some rumors that Chris Noth wasn't re-upped on the mothership show because he became too popular on a "character-proof" show.
Hmmm. I always thought it was just because he didn't get on with Dick Wolf. Oh well, I liked Logan better on CI anyway. (One of the reasons I hope CI gets it in gear for DVD release, so they'll get to the Logan episodes...)
Whatever differences he might have had with Dick Wolf, I presume they must have patched things up more or less, considering his return to the Law & Order universe in CI. Granted, it seems like Wolf is less involved with CI (I gather that Rene Balcer is the head honcho there), but I'm sure he's around some of the time. Plus, they were both on Inside the Actor's Studio together (along with S. Epatha Merkerson), which may not mean a heck of a lot, but it didn't seem like there was any great tension between them.

As for this news about CI, I'm a little surprised all these changes are happening so close together, but it doesn't really affect me any. I'm never quite sure when CI is on (I've only seen one of Goldblum's episodes so far), and accordingly, I only watch it sporadically, whereas I watch the other two fairly regularly.

I almost didn't notice that the original Law & Order has its season premiere tonight. I guess I'll tune in -- I'm just dying to find out if Jack McCoy got re-elected.
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Old September 25 2009, 11:21 PM   #22
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Maybe Law & Order can move to the CW, and the setting can be high school where a young rebellious biker Jack McCoy gets teamed up with studious Catholic Lennie Briscoe. Under the tutelage of history teacher Adam Schiff, they bring law and order to the school. Often with their shirts off. And McCoy also has his own personal subplot of having a torrid affair with his hot political science teacher Nora Lewin, while Briscoe is often butting heads with jock Ben Stone.
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Old September 25 2009, 11:39 PM   #23
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Daneel wrote: View Post

I almost didn't notice that the original Law & Order has its season premiere tonight.
You and most of America. I'm expecting some of its worst ratings ever tonight.
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Old September 26 2009, 12:19 AM   #24
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

The original is still on out of pity.
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Old September 26 2009, 12:24 AM   #25
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

I know L&O won't last forever, but it would truly suck if they cancelled it now, right when some of its best talent (Linus Roache, Anthony Anderson, Jeremy Sisto) have just joined...
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Old September 26 2009, 12:26 AM   #26
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
The way things are going all the current L&Os will be off the air within 2-3 years tops. L&O is on it's last leg, SVU the main characters are thinking about leaving the show, and CI is now completely a different show. What will the world look like without a L&O on the air?!
Maybe now would be a good time to bring back Homicide. I liked it better than any of the L&O's anyway.
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Old September 26 2009, 12:37 AM   #27
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

Thank god. I don't watch Criminal Intent largely because I can't stand D'Onofrio. Goldblum is cool though.

Timby wrote: View Post
bigdaddy is right about the Law & Order franchise in general, though: This is almost guaranteed to be Vanilla's final year on the air, given its budgetary woes and its move to the Friday night graveyard, and I don't think there's any chance of SVU continuing beyond the expiration of Meloni and Hargitay's contracts in two years.
Hey, Law & Order has already survived a move to the Friday night death slot once, around Season 17 or 18. It can survive again. Besides, it's not like NBC has anything else that it can rely on. Why do you think they ceded an entire 3rd of their weekday prime time lineup to The Jay Leno Show? Plus, since NBC-Universal also owns the franchise, it's in their interests to keep it on the air so they can keep selling it into syndication & DVDs. (Isn't that the same reason why ABC has kept Scrubs on way past its expiration date?)

Still, I agree SVU will have a lot of problems when Stabler & Benson leave.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Whatever happens to the broadcasts, I hope they step it way the fuck up in terms of DVD releases. SVU must be a huge hit in that regard, since now ALL of its seasons are out on DVD except for the current one. But the other shows? Glacially slow pace of release. L&O (prime) is in its 20th season on air, but only 6 seasons have made it to DVD. And CI has only four seasons out - 1, 2, 3 and 5.
There are 7 seasons of the original Law & Order out on DVD, Seasons 1-6 plus Season 14. Only the 1st 3 seasons of Criminal Intent are on DVD, although Season 4 is slated for release later this year. But I agree Universal needs to pick up the fucking pace!!!

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Maybe Law & Order can move to the CW, and the setting can be high school where a young rebellious biker Jack McCoy gets teamed up with studious Catholic Lennie Briscoe. Under the tutelage of history teacher Adam Schiff, they bring law and order to the school. Often with their shirts off. And McCoy also has his own personal subplot of having a torrid affair with his hot political science teacher Nora Lewin, while Briscoe is often butting heads with jock Ben Stone.
I'd watch it. Hell, I'll watch anything with Jack McCoy.
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Old September 26 2009, 12:50 AM   #28
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

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If the first few seasons don't sell, they just won't release the rest of them.
Precisely the nuts and bolts of it. For whatever reason, Law & Order Vanilla DVDs have gone over

Is SVU chocolate and CI strawberry?

Also L&O I think is dead this year because the only reason it is on is to make Dick Wolf happy because he wanted at least 20 seasons.

And It's on tonight? I think I'll watch.
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Old September 26 2009, 12:57 AM   #29
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Aragorn wrote: View Post
Maybe Law & Order can move to the CW, and the setting can be high school where a young rebellious biker Jack McCoy gets teamed up with studious Catholic Lennie Briscoe. Under the tutelage of history teacher Adam Schiff, they bring law and order to the school. Often with their shirts off. And McCoy also has his own personal subplot of having a torrid affair with his hot political science teacher Nora Lewin, while Briscoe is often butting heads with jock Ben Stone.
I'd watch it. Hell, I'll watch anything with Jack McCoy.
Yeah, but this Jack McCoy would be played by some 20-something hunk playing a high school student even though he's more wooden than Josh Hartnett.
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Old September 26 2009, 01:18 AM   #30
Timby
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Re: Everyone leaves L&O:CI?!

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Hey, Law & Order has already survived a move to the Friday night death slot once, around Season 17 or 18. It can survive again. Besides, it's not like NBC has anything else that it can rely on. Why do you think they ceded an entire 3rd of their weekday prime time lineup to The Jay Leno Show?
Law & Order is prohibitively expensive, being shot almost exclusively on-location and having a number of not-inexpensive actors (Sam Waterston is only still on the series because he agreed to take a huge pay cut and a smaller role; Linus Roache and Anthony Anderson don't come cheap; S. Epatha Merkerson's escalators must have her earning a pretty penny by now), produced by a network that is hemorrhaging money right now. The only reason it got a 20th season is so NBC could get Dick Wolf to shut up about Gunsmoke (and to keep a good relationship with him -- there are rumors of a Los Angeles-based Law & Order a few years from now).

And the entire reason for The Jay Leno Show's existence is that Leno started having second thoughts about his agreement to step aside and let Conan take over the big chair, and then made it clear in no uncertain terms that both FOX and ABC had expressed interest in giving him a late-night slot directly opposing The Tonight Show. NBC panicked, decided to cut costs on its already stagnant primetime lineup, and gave Leno his early-show gig.

Plus, since NBC-Universal also owns the franchise
It doesn't. Dick Wolf owns the rights in their entirety (the series was originally made for CBS). NBC owns the distribution rights for what has already been produced, though.

Still, I agree SVU will have a lot of problems when Stabler & Benson leave.
I will bet any amount of money that SVU ends after the 2010-11 season, when Hargitay and Meloni's contracts expire. They both just got pay raises from about $7 million a year to a little under $10 million, and it was only at the last minute that they agreed to drop their demand of profit participation.
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