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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old September 21 2009, 02:05 AM   #151
Alidar Jarok
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
But the most important thing that this episode heralds is some good old-fashioned universe building. Actions here will have consequences, these aliens will be important later, and Shran will take on a bigger role in galactic affairs. This is the first episode since the pilot to try and define this universe, I just wish it hadn't been yet another hostage episode.
Quoted for absolute truth. This is one thing that I loved about Enterprise. I didn't really love this episode, though, because it was a bit slow, boring, and contrived (although it made the top 5 Enterprise episode list, iirc). But this episode is something you can look back from in the fourth season and still find a point. You can't do that with Broken Bow (even though I found BB to be a very entertaining pilot).

BTW, I see some people commenting on how it was back in the day. When I get a chance to, I'll join in. Unfortunately, I wasn't here from the beginning, so I'll have to wait until TheGodBen gets to the second season at least.
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Old September 21 2009, 08:21 PM   #152
Tallis Rhul
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote:
Oi, get your own thread! This is my franchise and I'll defend it to the full extent of intellectual property law!
Many apologies, as stated originally I wasn't intending to take it over, was just enjoying discussing episodes week by week and thought it would be ruder to start another thread to "compete" as well as a waste of time making a new thread for each new episode. I'll be posting no more reviews in this thread now you're back.

Axesoleve wrote:
In all seriousness, you're totally hijacking this thread and its both annoying me and making me feel uncomfortable, its incredibly rude IMO. You can always start your own if you please.
I think that's overcooking it slightly... however if I made you feel that uncomfortable I kinda wish you'd contacted me earlier to let me know.

TheGodBen wrote:
But the most important thing that this episode heralds is some good old-fashioned universe building. Actions here will have consequences, these aliens will be important later, and Shran will take on a bigger role in galactic affairs.
I love that too, and particularly liked the way they followed up in the next episode Shran appeared in. He's one of the most interesting recurring characters in the show in my opinion.
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Old September 21 2009, 10:35 PM   #153
TheGodBen
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Breaking the Ice (***)

I'm left asking the same question I had the first time I saw this episode; why is T'pol staying on Enterprise? Is it because of the pie? The episode contained a lot of reasons why she should go back to Vulcan and absolutely zero reasons why she wants to stay aboard the ship, but we know that she's content to stay because she ate some pie? Is the pie really that good? Is it a magic pie? Is it a Janeway pi? Oh wait, Janeway pi wont exist for another 200 years so that can't be it.

Can you guess that I'm still taking medication?

Anyway, this is a nice character episode which is a little ruined by the fact that T'Pol just decides to stay with no reason given. Another thing which harms this episode is Captain Clueless. First he orders Hoshi to decode the message T'Pol received and tells her that it is a priority, but then he wastes five minutes of her time on a message to a bizarre school address for this little island. (We call them "primary" schools as opposed to "elementary" and we call the years "class" as opposed to "grade". But hey, it's the future, we're bound to have been invaded by the yanks by then. And at least they went for the name of a real town rather than the mapping debacle I had with Fair Haven.) Later Archer tells Trip to have his important personal conversation with T'Pol and right in the middle he calls her and pulls her away. He's getting in the way of his own orders.

Then he blows up at some Vulcan captain because he's quiet during dinner. If Archer can't handle known traits of aliens he has encountered his whole life then he's probably not the man you want out there representing your whole species to alien races, some of whom have some very big guns.

There's also a story about Reed and Mayweater on a comet and that provides some fun for the show, it is nice to see humans goofing about during a mission. It's endearing. However, Mayweather falls and breaks his foot while climbing out of a 2m high crater, but isn't he the experienced rock-climber? It seems almost like every time that guy even goes near a rock-wall he ends up breaking something.
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Old September 21 2009, 10:46 PM   #154
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Ever wonder how he got to be such a great rock climber when he's supposed to have lived on cargo ships most of his life?

I have noticed though that in any situation, the lowest ranking person is usually the one that ends up getting hurt or screwing things up for everybody.
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Old September 21 2009, 10:53 PM   #155
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

I thought "Breaking the Ice" was pretty fun, although Archer's interactions with Vulcans aren't one of my favourite things on this show. This was the first time that I actually found Trip likeable - he's much better when he's awkward and unsure of himself. His scenes with T'Pol were quite nice.
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Old September 21 2009, 11:18 PM   #156
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

My thought. Decent filler episode. Did not damage the series. Rewatchable because there is not that much you remember from the first time you watched it.
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Old September 21 2009, 11:27 PM   #157
Jimmy Bob
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Breaking the Ice (***)

I'm left asking the same question I had the first time I saw this episode; why is T'pol staying on Enterprise? Is it because of the pie? The episode contained a lot of reasons why she should go back to Vulcan and absolutely zero reasons why she wants to stay aboard the ship, but we know that she's content to stay because she ate some pie? Is the pie really that good? Is it a magic pie? Is it a Janeway pi? Oh wait, Janeway pi wont exist for another 200 years so that can't be it.

Can you guess that I'm still taking medication?

Anyway, this is a nice character episode which is a little ruined by the fact that T'Pol just decides to stay with no reason given.
I always assumed it was for "unproper" reasons. You see, T'Pol left me with the impression of a christian woman with a very puritanical background. And as proper vulcans do considerate humans to be sort of vile... similar to how proper christians used to consider all other races and religions to be vile. So to her, these humans are vile... but like a proper preacher's wife who secretly lusts for the poor handsome catholic boy that her husband and she damn into hell in proper sundays... she's sort of drawn towards humans too.

I'm not saying she wants to have wild group sex with Trip, Malcolm and Archer. I'm saying that she's drawn towards humans because it's "unproper". I sort of could have made the same point with evangelical family, who believes that Harry Potter will damn you into hell, where the kids secretly read Harry Potter and have all sorts of guilty feelings. But I just didn't and it's too late now.

In Fusion, there's a flashback where T'Pol goes secretly into a jazz bar... and the way she acts is just like that "sinful christian" way. Pervertedly sexual. Not in whorish-slutty way. Just that she acts like a person who's enjoying something that can be enjoyed in an innocent and pure way, and she feels guilty about, and that guilt turns that experience, which could be purifying and innocent, into semi-sexual perverted experience. bluedana had an interesting post about it - http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3313243&postcount=57.

I see vulcans of Enterprise as prisoners of their imperialistic puritanical envangelical species-ist culture. But T'Pol is sort of finding the inner liberal. Perhaps that was too loaded. What I'm trying to say that T'Pol's coming to an awakening that a vulcan doesn't have to be what the Official Vulcan Identity says that a vulcan should be. And to have an awakening, one needs to already have a doubt and a desire for something different... and that's why she wants to stay with humans.
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Old September 21 2009, 11:32 PM   #158
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Disillusioned wrote: View Post
Ever wonder how he got to be such a great rock climber when he's supposed to have lived on cargo ships most of his life?
Maybe they had an indoor rock wall? Those were some pretty big cargo ships.
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Old September 21 2009, 11:47 PM   #159
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

I didn't even notice Archer getting in the way of his own orders, but having studies physics for a year, I was really pissed off by the comet's gravity. There should hardly be any to speak off, and they should use lines to prevent themselves from floating into space when they jump too enthusiastically. I was able to ignore it at first though by thinking that they have magnets in their boots that are attracted to ice or something, but then Travis managed to break his leg. Even though he weighed about 15 grams. And when the shuttle (weighing about 400 grams) started caving in the comet, it really seemed like they were going out of their way to annoy me by making even the most implausible explanations wrong.
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Old September 22 2009, 12:47 AM   #160
bluedana
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

apenpaap wrote: View Post
I didn't even notice Archer getting in the way of his own orders, but having studies physics for a year, I was really pissed off by the comet's gravity. There should hardly be any to speak off, and they should use lines to prevent themselves from floating into space when they jump too enthusiastically. I was able to ignore it at first though by thinking that they have magnets in their boots that are attracted to ice or something, but then Travis managed to break his leg. Even though he weighed about 15 grams. And when the shuttle (weighing about 400 grams) started caving in the comet, it really seemed like they were going out of their way to annoy me by making even the most implausible explanations wrong.
The physics of it bothered even me, who passed the class because of the pure sympathy of a sweet teacher. What chapped my *ss was the fact that the two of them open the gull wing hatch of the shuttle, climb in, and immediately take off their helmets. Even though all of the heat and atmosphere would have whooshed out of the shuttle.

And as I mentioned in the Worst Lines thread over yonder: "Call the Vulcans and let them know we're about to make a very loud noise." Except, THERE IS NO SOUND IN SPACE!!!

Now, the answering schoolkids' questions scene, I could watch that all day. (Admit it, you always wanted to know where the poop goes. And it's a brilliant solution.) Makes me happy every time.

(and, I would have poked that Vulcan captain in the eye with my fork. What a jerk. Even T'Pol was like, Please stop embarrassing me, Uncle Vanik. Okay?)
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Old September 22 2009, 05:13 PM   #161
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

I guess I stopped paying attention to physics back in TOS when I noticed that the ship's lasers fire at a spread of around 30 deg and then magically hit the target as a single beam. Since then there has been countless liberties taken in an effort to boost the story line and save production costs. Even though physics was my favorite subject in high school and college I try not to pay attention to the physics of entertainment TV.
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Old September 23 2009, 02:57 AM   #162
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

There are people who watch Star Trek for the science?




It depends on what you know, I suppose. I remember the year "ER" debuted, and I loved it, so I asked my brother (an MD) what he thought. He said he bailed on the pilot without even making it to the end, because the medicine was inaccurate.

I'm not a doctor, or a scientist. But I love compelling stories and well-drawn characters. I think the idea is to make the Star Trek Science or the ER Medicine seem credible enough that the viewer can concentrate on the drama.
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Old September 23 2009, 03:51 AM   #163
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Oh, I don't watch for the science - it's just that every once in a while there's such an affront to the laws of physics that even I'm unable to get past it. A rogue planet, okay, universe is full of unknowns. A "loud noise" in space? Gravity on a comet? No. Just, no.

Give me a compelling legal drama and I'm willing to suspend disbelief. Make me watch the average Boston Legal, Law and Order, or CSI episode, and I'm writing the defendant's appellate brief in my head for the whole hour.
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Old September 23 2009, 12:05 PM   #164
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

^I just go with the explanation that the properties of the mineral (can't remember the name of it) they found in the comet affected the gravity somehow. I think Malcolm might have been joking with his loud noise comment.
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Old September 23 2009, 02:31 PM   #165
TheGodBen
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Jimmy Bob wrote: View Post
I always assumed it was for "unproper" reasons. You see, T'Pol left me with the impression of a christian woman with a very puritanical background. And as proper vulcans do considerate humans to be sort of vile... similar to how proper christians used to consider all other races and religions to be vile. So to her, these humans are vile... but like a proper preacher's wife who secretly lusts for the poor handsome catholic boy that her husband and she damn into hell in proper sundays... she's sort of drawn towards humans too.
I think you're right, that is the reason why T'Pol decided to stay, but that decision only makes sense because I've seen the later episodes and know about the darker side of T'Pol's nature, particularly her Trellium addiction. But when Breaking the Ice aired I had no clue why she decided to stay, and I don't think the writers did either.

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
There are people who watch Star Trek for the science?

I don't watch it for the science, but it is best when the science makes sense. Besides, they had André Bormanis on the writing staff, although he was the science consultant that allowed Threshold to be made.

However, I can accept the gravity on a comet thing because it was the biggest comet ever encountered by Humans or Vulcans and it had the magical mineral which could have been super dense. It could have had around 0.3g.

Lady Conqueror wrote: View Post
I think Malcolm might have been joking with his loud noise comment.
Except then they showed the explosion with a big bang. I admit I found it a little stupid, but there has always been sound in space in Star Trek and it is just something you have to accept.


Civilization (*½)

RIANN: We're so backward compared to you.
ARCHER: If you take away our technology we're not that different.
Exactly, and that's why this episode is so dull. These aliens aren't unique or interesting, they have no characteristics that make them unique beyond their technology level. They don't even react interestingly when they find out that aliens walk among them and are mining the planet, Riann isn't phased by it at all. These are some of the most boring aliens I've ever seen on Star Trek.

ARCHER: Starfleet could've sent a probe out here to make maps and take pictures, but they didn't. They sent us so we could explore with our own senses.
Dear gods, I loath that line.

TRAVIS: There's a ship approaching.
T'POL: From where?
TRAVIS: It must have been in a geosynchronous orbit on the other side of the planet.
So these aliens park their ship on the other side of the planet even though they have to fly a shuttle around it to collect crates every night? Makes sense.

Captain's starlog, July 31st, 2151. We've removed the mining equipment from under the shop.
How? Where did you put it? Why didn't the Malurians just send another ship to destroy your puny Earth vessel? This is the embodiment of an episode where everything is neatly wrapped up by the end and Archer gets to fly off into the sunset as the hero of a civilisation. It's a TOS episode and an uninspired one at that.

The Akaali aren't space-faring and it turns out that the Malurians were referenced in TOS as a species that Nomad killed, so neither race will be counted. Archer did go down to a planet when he didn't need to and ended up trapped in a cave and in a firefight, so I'll count that as 1. But he did manage to win a fistfight, which was very surprising!

Captain Redshirt: 6
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