Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

[stonester1]

Preach.

[stonester1]

TheGallifreyanSith wrote:

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Which would solve nothing. All it would do is create more competition, and in doing so drive the smaller studios to take fewer risks and go for what they know is going to sell.

Or in some cases, counter-program, do something different to stand out from the pack.

We have to remember sci-fi fans are not the majority of average TV viewers, and hardcore "Save our show" types a even smaller minority of that.

Which is why not everyone should shoot for the exact same audience.

There are underserved demographics who aren't looking for the same pablum, the kind that watch Dancing With The Stars (whom Tom Delay is now listed as a coming contestant, yeesh).

[barnaclelapse]

It really only bothered me to the extent that I would have liked to have seen a couple more seasons. I definitely don't think it was a show meant to run for ten years or even more, but I certainly wish it could have gone two or three times around the block. It was at the time some of the best character-driven sci-fi I had seen on TV in quite some time, and I think that only would have gotten better.

[SeerSGB]

stonester1 wrote:

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Or in some cases, counter-program, do something different to stand out from the pack.

Which is why not everyone should shoot for the exact same audience.

There are underserved demographics who aren't looking for the same pablum, the kind that watch Dancing With The Stars (whom Tom Delay is now listed as a coming contestant, yeesh).

If it pays the bills.

What you're talking about will never pay the bills of the big studios or networks. The reason shows like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars survive is because that's what pays the bills, that's what they can sell to mom, dad, sis, and little bro over and over again in first run, reruns, DVDs, school supplies, etc, etc.

The only outlet for niche audiences in the 'net. And I don't mean fanfilms, I mean people taking chances and making original dramatic fiction shows and movies purely for release on the internet. It's been toyed with off and on for years and there's been a few productions. But it's never took off cause no one's ever put their backbone in trying to make it work; there's not been money in it-- not at the levels the studios want-- so it's never taken seriously.

[stonester1]

"Paying the bills" is whatever pays for itself, plus some over, ie "profit".

And there are PLENTY of niche products that have done this.

Not everyone or everything has to shoot for the broadest and the blandest. And not everything that does hits the mark.

Fortunately, there are some folks in the studios who actually have vision and backbone enough to realize this.

[Kaijima]

Personally, I believe that while the show was not as godlike as the diehard Whedon fans believe, it also was a world apart from Whedon's previous work.

In other words, Firefly was where Whedon was /beginning/ to get serious and was consciously struggling to raise himself out of the "hack" category, putting the good parts of his abilities to use. People who dismiss the show as being "just like all his other stuff" are reading in what isn't there; not all the characters are his stock characters, they actually have different voices and personalities, and the universe he was setting up had much more nuance and was damned intriguing.

Truthfully, Firefly showed the most potential of any major sci-fi to make it on television in years, especially because it showed signs of being a postmodern space opera: its rethinking of space opera tropes was more in line with modern authors like Alastair Reynolds than with the Star Trek-age ideas that have fueled (and been mined clean) mass market sci-fi for decades. It was a better show than Moore's BSG in many ways. (For one thing, while it was clear Whedon and Mineer were interested in turning sci-fi on its ear, they didn't show open disdain for the genre that Moore did and caused BSG's mythology to fall apart.)

So yeah, there's a really bitter pill to swallow. To draw a comparison: what if say, NuBSG had been suddenly canceled after the first 13 episodes, at the episode 13 cliffhanger? How much brutal sting of wasted potential would have been felt, and how much bad blood would have been directed at the network involved? I suspect it would have made the Farscape cancellation look like a girl scout campfire.

While lots of "browncoat" fans have been very annoying, I think you can argue Firefly getting screwed over is maybe the biggest missed opportunity in television sci-fi in the 21st century.

[Lindley]

Kaijima wrote:

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Personally, I believe that while the show was not as godlike as the diehard Whedon fans believe, it also was a world apart from Whedon's previous work.

In other words, Firefly was where Whedon was /beginning/ to get serious and was consciously struggling to raise himself out of the "hack" category, putting the good parts of his abilities to use. People who dismiss the show as being "just like all his other stuff" are reading in what isn't there; not all the characters are his stock characters, they actually have different voices and personalities, and the universe he was setting up had much more nuance and was damned intriguing.

While it was clear that Firefly represented a maturation in his capabilities as a creator, you aren't giving his previous work enough credit. Buffy and Angel's characters were just as diverse and interesting, and had voices just as distinct. Only the setting was different.

I am absolutely in favor of the statement that Firefly is nothing like what most people's preconceptions of Buffy and Angel would lead them to suspect. However, since most people's preconceptions of Buffy and Angel are inevitably wrong once they actually see the things, that doesn't translate to a statement about the shows' relative merits.

There's no question in my mind that, had it continued, Firefly would have surpassed them both. But as it stands, I still think Angel is the strongest of the three.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

the Dagman wrote:

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I was just making my point that you people never shut up about the show.

And we will not any time soon. So nu?

Firefly is not the best thing that Whedon has done - on balance Buffy is still head and shoulders above his other work; it contains more variety, more interesting themes and remains the best expression of, for lack of a better phrase, his agnosticism regarding virtue as an ideal. Firefly happens to be set in the future on a spaceship and therefore hit a little bigger with the skiffy crowd.

[mimic]

TheGallifreyanSith wrote:

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Depends on how you define hack. I would firmly slot Whedon into the hack category. With the bulk of his success being on his name and the fact that he sells what tweens and teens want. Most of his work, stretching a prior metaphor further, is the television equivelant of a Big Mac with the realtive entertainment value of said's nutritional value.

This isn't solely directed at TheGallifreyanSith as it seems to have come up in lots of places lately. I am so sick of being told that I'm a tween, annoying, a cult member, tasteless, etc. for liking Whedon's shows. So you don't like his work. Congratulations on that. Can't you express this sentiment without taking jabs at those who do?

I came to Firefly late in the game but its cancellation still affects how I watch TV. I'm definitely aware that most shows aren't given much of a chance by networks, so I'm unwilling to get invested in them. All of the shows I currently watch I caught on DVD or Hulu after they'd been well established (House, Lost, The Office).

[mswood]

Ok first it would help if people actually understood that all of things that happened to Firefly happen to many shows.

First Firefly wasn't a tightly scripted serial,and even some serials do get run out of order. In other words, one episode didn't directly tie to the next.

Yeah the pulot was aired last, but there are may shows where they never air the pilot (the reason they did was most likely just to have something to show, that didn't cost them anything else for a property that they were no longer going to produce).

Fox makes a tremendous amount of money (plus great ad time at the most sought after demo's Males 18-34 and males 18-49) with Baseball. This consumes a huge part of the Fall schedule. Most of Fox's programming gets preempted at some time (and sometimes often) during this time of the year.

Many shows get changes of schedules where they move from night to night or to a different time slot.

Again you are looking at one show. The studio has to look at really 6 nights and whats best for those nights. They also get extremely detailed demo breakdown (age, gender, income) and most of that we never saw) and that plays a huge part.

Promotions, the show got tons. It started as one of the most promoted shows on that season for Fox. And when it couldn't hold those ratings, the ads stopped (and thats how the business works), you don't throw a ton of money after something that isn't performing (and again we got viewer totals and the 18-49 adult demo, we never saw any more and that could have been a huge, huge factor.

[Jax]

No matter your feelings on the show, FOX screwed it up they didn't get it and tried to change it...Critics and fans agree FOX were idiots.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

mimic wrote:

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I am so sick of being told that I'm a tween, annoying, a cult member, tasteless, etc. for liking Whedon's shows. So you don't like his work. Congratulations on that.

I'd be more impressed if the folks who do that championed better shows and better writers than they in fact usually do.

[Chrisisall]

mswood wrote:

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Promotions, the show got tons. It started as one of the most promoted shows on that season for Fox.

And back then I tuned in, saw "The Train Job," and wondered who these peeps were, and why I should care about them. Later I saw the pilot on DVD, and realized my mistake.
Bottom line: the suits are stupid.

[zakkrusz]

Heck, I wasn't even following the show during its run, (got into it through DVD) and still curse FOX for canning it. Why? Because it was damn good, and it always sucks *insert colorful metaphor* when a show you've been following gets the axe. There is so much wasted potential in the Firefly universe that never got to be explored.

[Thespeckledkiwi]

How the hell is the Friday night slot more of a death slot than the time before the Simpson's on Sunday slot? Seriously, Futurama had pretty much everything like Firefly...some episodes were either ran out of order or pushed back or halfed the season, it was in one of the worst slots ever (football game ran over, canceled Futurama without any warning), but unlike Firefly, Fox toyed with canceling it forever. Yes they did get an ending and they lasted a little longer but they were starting to really get their legs by that season.