RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,932
Posts: 5,389,948
Members: 24,722
Currently online: 414
Newest member: Leaveitalone

TrekToday headlines

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science and Technology

Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 18 2009, 05:58 AM   #151
bigdaddy
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Space Massachusetts
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Johnny Rico wrote: View Post
This just in...

Obama's Space Plan just axed NASA's plan to return to the moon.

Well, so much for the Messiah reaching for the stars.

So who wouldda thunk that 'Dubya' was the "space/science-friendly" President?
Who would have thought the spin here would stop?!

Bush said "Let's go to the moon by 2020!" and then gave no money!!!!

That's a great space president! Any asshole can say it, but it there is no more funding then it will never happen.

Also NASA of today is run by fuck-ups, I say we cut the budget to nothing.
__________________
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
bigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 07:52 AM   #152
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

MARC: Do you have any details on what would of been different with the Shuttle is it hadn't been the bastard child of NASA and the Military? ---
The wings would of been smaller, the air force wanted "cross range" capability. The cargo hold would of been smaller, air force again wanted the big 15 x 60 feet for some of their cargos.

The Hubble Space Telescope would of had to be lifted by titan (?) booster or be much smaller to fit NASA's original shuttles cargo hold. the current size module for the ISS wouldn't fit either. Many of the satelites NASA lifted through the years would have fit, but not the deep space probes.

The smaller shuttle still could of performed crew transfers.

bigdaddy: Bush said "Let's go to the moon by 2020!" and then gave no money!!!! ---
Old president with a big dream and no spare money -- new president with no clue and too much money.
T'Girl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 04:47 PM   #153
Marc
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: An Aussie in Canukistan
Send a message via ICQ to Marc
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
MARC: Do you have any details on what would of been different with the Shuttle is it hadn't been the bastard child of NASA and the Military? ---
The wings would of been smaller, the air force wanted "cross range" capability. The cargo hold would of been smaller, air force again wanted the big 15 x 60 feet for some of their cargos.

The Hubble Space Telescope would of had to be lifted by titan (?) booster or be much smaller to fit NASA's original shuttles cargo hold. the current size module for the ISS wouldn't fit either. Many of the satelites NASA lifted through the years would have fit, but not the deep space probes.

The smaller shuttle still could of performed crew transfers.
In a way it sounds like the the military demands stopped the shuttle from being a total turkey. I'm not sure how a small capacity would of really helped things unless I'm totally dense this morning.

Or was the intention to use the Titans etc to do the heavy lifting the shutttle would then launch and do the final work in space?
__________________
Gentlemen you can't fight in here - this is the war room.

Pres. Merkin P. Muffly
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 06:55 PM   #154
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

It wasn't just the military. Lack of budget was a problem too. Originally the entire system was supposed to be reusable. instead of srbs and external tank there would have been fly back boosters. the money just wasn't there to develop a reusable "first stage". The increase in size exasperated(sp?) this by making the mass fraction to reach orbit larger.

There is a really good article here on the entire design process:
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/shuttle.htm
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 07:11 PM   #155
Lindley
Moderator with a Soul
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

The word you're looking for is exacerbated.
__________________
Lead Organizer for EVN: Firefly.
"So apparently the really smart zombies have automatic weapons!"
-Torg, Sluggy Freelance
Lindley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 08:42 PM   #156
Marc
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: An Aussie in Canukistan
Send a message via ICQ to Marc
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Lindley wrote: View Post
The word you're looking for is exacerbated.
but no doubt some people have been exasperated by the whole deal
__________________
Gentlemen you can't fight in here - this is the war room.

Pres. Merkin P. Muffly
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 09:13 PM   #157
diankra
Commodore
 
Location: UK
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Marc wrote: View Post
In a way it sounds like the the military demands stopped the shuttle from being a total turkey. I'm not sure how a small capacity would of really helped things unless I'm totally dense this morning.

Or was the intention to use the Titans etc to do the heavy lifting the shutttle would then launch and do the final work in space?
With the smaller designs, then yes, use expendables to launch big cargoes, including space station modules, and then the orbiter would have been a genuine shuttle, carrying a crew of maybe five plus the contents of a smaller payload bay up to the station (or on solo missions).
It might seem limited, but it would have been able to carry more crew and cargo than Apollo (the payload bay could have carried small station modules, akin to Kvant on Salyut 7/Mir), while being fully reuseable (the other half of the system being a flyback booster stage). And there would potentially have been the option to launch large unmanned payloads by attaching a second stage to the payload and launching that from the shuttle booster (akin to Shuttle-C, or the first test of the Buran launcher Energia with an unmanned satellite as payload).
__________________
"Some days are better than others. They say that where I come from."
"Loudly, I imagine, on the day you left."
(Blake's 7 - Rumours of Death)
diankra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18 2009, 09:59 PM   #158
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Marc wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
The word you're looking for is exacerbated.
but no doubt some people have been exasperated by the whole deal

Hehe, yea, that's what i get for relying on firefox's spellcheck too much. I knew it didn't look right, but FF didn't complain.

Actually, just googled both words. They can have the same meaning when used in the same context.

So no, I wasn't horribly mispelling the word I was thinking of. You just thought I was.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19 2009, 02:32 AM   #159
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

The fly-back booster, F-1 (?), was to be a saturn five first stage with nose cone, wings, jets and landing gear. Advertised as just a standard first stage to be constructed with exsisting forms and tools, I really don't see how it could of been used repeatly.

Interesting thing about the russian buran - snow flake (?) - shuttle is that it was designed to be flown by ground control, if a crew wasn't required in orbit. Delivery runs.
T'Girl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 19 2009, 04:31 AM   #160
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

^That's only one of many conjectured flyback first stages they assessed. Check out the link I posted earlier.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19 2009, 04:43 AM   #161
Dale
Vice Admiral
 
Dale's Avatar
 
Location: Mt. Baldy, CA
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Johnny Rico wrote: View Post
Tharsis wrote: View Post
Ok, so this is not happening yet? I was just about to reply with a remark about how little the NASA budget actually accounts for our total federal budget. I am sick of people saying that science needs to be cut to pay for more government bloat. Oh, and in the future please title your forum posts accurately!
Um, it was...what part of verbatum do you not understand?
The spelling?
__________________
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. - 2 Timothy 4:3
Dale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19 2009, 01:34 PM   #162
Finnegan
Captain
 
Finnegan's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

I think that China will catch up to, then surpass, the West when it comes to manned space exploration. This actually might be a good thing, as it could spur a new "space race", with China this time, not the old USSR.

I do find it odd that the US could go to the moon, several times, using 1950's/1960's technology, and then has never gone back. It's like Columbus discovering the new world--and then Europe never returning because of the cost of building some big new boats. Not exactly the same thing, but you get my point.

I know it's a matter of political will, and the desire to spend huge sums of money on space research, but come on--it should still be a matter of national pride that the US gets back to the moon with a manned presence.
__________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
- H.L. Mencken

Last edited by Finnegan; September 19 2009 at 04:06 PM.
Finnegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19 2009, 04:43 PM   #163
diankra
Commodore
 
Location: UK
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The fly-back booster, F-1 (?), was to be a saturn five first stage with nose cone, wings, jets and landing gear. Advertised as just a standard first stage to be constructed with exsisting forms and tools, I really don't see how it could of been used repeatly.

Interesting thing about the russian buran - snow flake (?) - shuttle is that it was designed to be flown by ground control, if a crew wasn't required in orbit. Delivery runs.
As Sojourner says, the Saturn V 1st stage-derived booster was a later proposal for an interim booster once it became clear that there wasn't the budget to develop the fully reuseable booster (and, to be honest, as a proposal it probably had a lot to do with Boeing wanting to keep a share of the pie).

All Soviet craft were built to be ground controllable, not just Buran - partly for dual use (Vostok also flew unmanned as the Zenit spy satellites), partly due to the medics' early worries about whether pilots could function in space, and also for political reasons (so the pilots could be over-ruled by ground control if they tried to land in the west).
One of the sillier things was that on Vostok 1 the manual controls were actually locked, and could only be turned on if Gagarin entered a PIN number that the capcom would relay up from the ground if needed. But as the ground controllers and designers were worried that they might lose communications, at least three of them grabbed a chance to whisper the combination in Gagarin's ear before launch...
__________________
"Some days are better than others. They say that where I come from."
"Loudly, I imagine, on the day you left."
(Blake's 7 - Rumours of Death)
diankra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21 2009, 12:40 AM   #164
Doran
Lieutenant Commander
 
Doran's Avatar
 
Location: midwest
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Recently the powers that be in Washington decided that it would be too expensive to go back to the moon. Additional funding for the space program was not approved. They'd rather give that money to bank presidents, oil company execs, and car companies ... just to name a few.
They would probably argue that these moves help sitmulate our aeconomy, but what about the creation of jobs and new technologies in our efforts to expand beyond the confines of this planet. Earth won't last forever, and typical of our powers that be, they will remain too complacent until it may be too late to do something about our civilization and culture.
As Trekkers, we are for the most part dreamers. Trek is our escape mechanism, our coping device outside of our normal everyday lives. Some of us are lucky enough that Trek is our everyday life. But we need to be more than that. We need to be advocates for our space program. I want to see man on another planet before I die, and at the rate they're moving, my grandchildren will be lucky to see us on another planet. I have several grandchildren, most of them want to be sports stars or rock stars when they grow up. As a society we have successfully quashed the childhood dream of becoming an astronaut. One of my youngest grandchildren is a Stars Wars buff. He is only 5 and there is the potential for that old childhood dream to be reborn thru kids like him.
Write your legislators, talk to your friends and family about it. Help replant the seed and we can get the idea to grow. It will be through people like us that our space program can be reborn, but we need to let Washington know that this is what we want.
Post your efforts and ideas here so that I know that I don't stand alone.
I talk about issues like this in my forum... pay a visit and read additional posts.
__________________
"I'm from Iowa ... I only work in outer space..."

http://ncc1954ussvincennes.myfreeforum.org

Last edited by Doran; September 21 2009 at 12:42 AM. Reason: wasn't finished!
Doran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21 2009, 02:57 AM   #165
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Recently the powers that be in Washington decided that it would be too expensive to go back to the moon. Additional funding for the space program was not approved.
No, if you read the thread, you would know that the Augustine Commission reported that at current levels there is not enough money with the current plan NASA is using. NO DECISION HAS BEEN MADE by Obama on providing addition funds, changing the goal, or changing the plan to achieve that goal. Please stop spreading FUD.(Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt)
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.