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Old September 8 2009, 04:58 PM   #61
DGCatAniSiri
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
TheGodBen wrote: View Post
At a point when the audience is still unsure of who these characters are, the last thing that should have been done was an episode where their worst vices are magnified.
You mean like in "The Naked Time"? Or "The Naked Now"? When you put characters under pressure, you learn things about them that you would otherwise never know. That's the fun of episodes like these. I can see why the writers would do it right off the bat -- to help the viewers learn more about the crew.
Honestly, I think those episodes suffer horribly by placement myself - sure, it's a chance to see the characters reacting differently... but so close to the start, the audience is still learning about how the characters react NORMALLY. An episode where the characters do things they wouldn't normally do is served best by already knowing the characters. If you have to have it in the first season, have it late in the first season. Preferably, have it in the second season. Episodes like this are worthless when you don't have context for the characters - seeing a character let loose after two or three episodes isn't the same as seeing them do so half a season down the line, when they've been bottling things up for so long.

'Right off the bat,' in my opinion, is the wrong time to play the 'characters do strange and out-of-character things under influence.'
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Old September 9 2009, 01:58 PM   #62
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

^ Exactly my thoughts. You have to get to know the characters before you realise that they're acting out of character, and when this episode first aired I did not know Trip well enough to realise that he wasn't normally such an annoying dick. It ruined the character for me for a long time.

Count Zero wrote: View Post
There were a lot of nice little touches in the episode, like the photo they take at the beginning, the campfire scene, Trip and Travis fighting the bug in their tent.
Yeah, I enjoyed all of those but they were all in the first half of the episode and I didn't like the second half.

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
This one's OK. Of course, if they'd surveyed the planet from orbit first, like a crew member whose name I forget suggested
T'Pol.

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
That said...in terms of counting, you've GOT to count either Mayweather lines or scenes per episode. They should not include helm/nav related dialogue given from behind the driver's seat. "Aye sir" is not dialogue. It would be interesting to watch that number drop to zero as the series moves on.
I'd love to know the number myself, but if I spent my time during the episodes counting lines I'd have no time to enjoy anything. I'd probably just cheat and count his lines from online transcripts.

Seven Of Five wrote: View Post
Kelly Waymire played Cutler very well, and I wish she could have made more than three appearances before her untimely death.
I was annoyed that she disappeared after season 1, but then I learned a few months back that the actress died so I gave the writers a pass on that. It's a pity she only appeared in a handful of episodes.

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
You mean like in "The Naked Time"? Or "The Naked Now"?
I have a confession to make, The Naked Time sent me to sleep. Literally, I fell asleep while watching it and woke up five minutes later not knowing what was going on. So that one's not going to be added as one of my all-time favourite Trek episodes, and I didn't play enough rugby as a kid to have my brain so damaged as to love The Naked Now.

I can see why the writers would do it right off the bat -- to help the viewers learn more about the crew.
But I didn't learn anything beyond the fact that when Trip gets high he's really, really irritating. Throughout the entire run of the show I don't remember a time when Trip acted quite this irritating ever again.

Is that why he blew off the scans? For Porthos? I must have missed that line.
Sometimes I try to be funny. It doesn't always work.

Seriously, if Archer had done the scans, they wouldn't have gone down there. Scratch entire episode.
Not necessarily, they could still have done an episode about humans exploring a new world without the mind-altering pollen angle. If the entire episode had been like the first half then I would have rated it a 4 star episode.

Since the writers clearly wanted to do this episode, I agree that they should have shored up the reason Archer thought it would be safe. The scans don't recognize the alien spores as a toxin, or some such.
Or that.

I figured Archer, as a former test pilot, would have been the most qualified pilot, since Travis was on the surface.
But he's the captain, he shouldn't be risking his neck by flying into a storm and nearly crashing into a mountain. One of the most important components of leadership is learning how to delegate.

I think an episode of DS9 thought me that.

And Novakovich didn't die! Maybe you should count "hoary old cliches avoided."
Or maybe I should count "Hoary old clichés which were written into the script but Scott Bakula objected to the episode not properly addressing the death so they threw in a line during the final minute of the episode".


Unexpected (*½)

Four episodes in and we have a holodeck showing up. Why?

The episode starts out well enough, Enterprise begins to experience malfunctions and they find a hidden alien ship in their wake. They need some help making repairs so Trip goes over and experiences a horrible trippy pressurisation chamber. This is two weeks in a row now where this character has had a bad trip, is that where he got his nickname from? Anyway, this is the best part of the episode because it shows us some unique aliens and the horrible differences humans have to get past to meet them.

Then Trip grows a nipple on his wrist and learns he's pregnant. To quote Archer, "Oooooooh boy!"

I'm annoyed by this episode's lack of balls. Clearly the episode is based upon the premise of a man getting pregnant and the "hilarity" which ensues but I'm annoyed by how half-assed the whole thing is. Firstly, Trip was abused by an alien, there is no way around that. When I watched the scene of Trip and the alien sticking their hands into the crystals I found it very disturbing, just look at the transcript:

AH'LEN: No, this is a game we play. Watch. Go ahead.
TUCKER: Are there any rules to this game?
AH'LEN: It takes four hands to work.
Replace TUCKER with BOY and AH'LEN with PRIEST and you have an idea of what I'm getting at. She was in a superior position and she abused his innocence to get him to commit a sexual act with her, it is reprehensible. Does the episode even consider this for a moment? No, because this is a comedy episode and you're not supposed to take it seriously, but there's one big problem with that; it's not funny. This is a one-note joke which is played out over 20 minutes, and the only time it is even remotely funny is when T'Pol chastises Tucker in sickbay. But that's not funny because Tucker didn't do anything wrong!

If this episode had any balls they would have just had Tucker have sex with her and do away with this rape nonsense, but B&B wouldn't risk doing that because the level of maturity they display in their writing when it comes to sex is the same as an 8-year-old's. Sex happens, consenting adults do it all the time, so just let them have sex rather than messing about with glowing crystals. I thought they wanted these human characters to be flawed.

The episode also doesn't have the balls to let Trip be the father because these aliens apparently only transmit genetic information from the mother. Now I'm no biologist, but I'm fairly certain that that completely negates the benefits of sexual reproduction. But of course this was only done so that there would be no repercussions from this "comedy" episode. And what about considering aborting the baby due to it being any unwanted side-effect of rape? Oh right, it's a "comedy".

Disappearing Aliens: 3
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Old September 9 2009, 02:06 PM   #63
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Unexpected was really bad, though the beginning where everything on the ship malfunctions was pretty funny.
Apparently, they had a really cool new design for a 22nd century Klingon ship for this episode, but some idiot decided to use a K'tinga, which would not be introduced for another 120 years, instead.
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Old September 9 2009, 04:14 PM   #64
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

My memory is a bit hazy, but in Strange New World, don't they give an explanation why their scans didn't detect the toxin? It would get Archer off the hook, at least, even though he was still way too quick to get down there.

Well, this won't be fun, I guess. I actually like Unexpected. Sure, it's a bit silly but entertaining. I laughed. In German, there's a proverb that fits this episode quite well: "Wer den Schaden hat, braucht für den Spott nicht zu sorgen." which basically translates to "The laugh is always on the loser". Yeah, we're horrible people with a twisted sense of humour.
It's best not to overthink Trek comedy episodes.

Going by the ratings you've been handing out, ENT will score much lower than VOY in the end.
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Old September 9 2009, 05:14 PM   #65
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

My memory is a bit hazy, but in Strange New World, don't they give an explanation why their scans didn't detect the toxin? It would get Archer off the hook, at least, even though he was still way too quick to get down there.
Yes, they said that the psychotropic pollen was contained in the flowers, but it wasn't until the wind blew up that it became dangerous (because then it was inhaled). Novakovich was affected even before the wind came because he had picked a flower and smelled it. He went to bed early with a headache, and then the storm came. Additionally, the pollen had an added toxin that put Novokovich's life in danger, but that could not have been detected by the scans. It would be like someone scanning Earth and registering the existence of ragweed; they'd have no idea what the effect might be on them just from the scan.
Well, this won't be fun, I guess. I actually like Unexpected. Sure, it's a bit silly but entertaining. I laughed.
Hey, my German's not so rusty after all! You could also say of this episode, Take it in the spirit it's offered. Yes, you could look at is as a rape episode, but you could also take it as an example of two totally different mindsets at work, and therein lies the comedy. The boy/priest analogy presupposes that this alien culture tracks with human.
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Old September 9 2009, 05:40 PM   #66
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
^ Exactly my thoughts. You have to get to know the characters before you realise that they're acting out of character, and when this episode first aired I did not know Trip well enough to realise that he wasn't normally such an annoying dick. It ruined the character for me for a long time.
Jimmy Bob is also doing a "my impressions of Enterprise" thread. Here is his reaction to "Strange New World" and Trip:

However this episode is way better and way more entertaining than Flight or Fight. Because of Trip. Trip rules. I realize that now. I don't know how I could not see this before. That scene in the cave, where Trip goes mad... that was so awesome and intense. And I believe T'Pol was really frightened in her vulcan way. It really felt like he is really going to kill T'Pol. Trip is awesome. Not because he yells and points guns at women... he just is. It's something you feel. I can't explain it.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I have a confession to make, The Naked Time sent me to sleep. Literally, I fell asleep while watching it and woke up five minutes later not knowing what was going on. So that one's not going to be added as one of my all-time favourite Trek episodes, and I didn't play enough rugby as a kid to have my brain so damaged as to love The Naked Now.
I never said the idea of doing this sort of episode so early in a show's run was always a home run. BTW, I really enjoyed "The Naked Time," and really cringed my way through "The Naked Now." And "Strange New World" worked for me just fine.

Or maybe I should count "Hoary old clichés which were written into the script but Scott Bakula objected to the episode not properly addressing the death so they threw in a line during the final minute of the episode".
Hooray for Bakula having story sense. I understand he added a lot of nice little elements to the episodes over the years.

...B&B wouldn't risk doing that because the level of maturity they display in their writing when it comes to sex is the same as an 8-year-old's.
This appears to have been a fundamental problem with Trek writing for over twenty years. And add "romance," too. Sure, it's science fiction, but good sci-fi and good romantic relationships aren't mutually exclusive.

ETA:

bluedana wrote: View Post
Yes, they said that the psychotropic pollen was contained in the flowers, but it wasn't until the wind blew up that it became dangerous (because then it was inhaled). Novakovich was affected even before the wind came because he had picked a flower and smelled it. He went to bed early with a headache, and then the storm came. Additionally, the pollen had an added toxin that put Novokovich's life in danger, but that could not have been detected by the scans. It would be like someone scanning Earth and registering the existence of ragweed; they'd have no idea what the effect might be on them just from the scan.
Bingo! Thank you! Now I realize why I never thought Archer was an idiot to go down to the planet.

Last edited by HopefulRomantic; September 9 2009 at 05:44 PM. Reason: bluedana and her awesome attention to detail
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Old September 9 2009, 06:41 PM   #67
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

The Naked Time was cool, it revealed the conflict between Spock's human and Vulcan sides and Kirk's angst over his feelings for Yeoman Rand. Strange New World was just a bunch of people getting paranoid and shouting. And as for the Naked Now, it may have been a poor imitation, but I admire the chutzpah of getting the android to have sex in the second episode.
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Old September 9 2009, 07:43 PM   #68
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
Hooray for Bakula having story sense. I understand he added a lot of nice little elements to the episodes over the years.
That was pretty cool of him. Which other changes did he influence?
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Old September 9 2009, 07:46 PM   #69
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Unexpected...

when I first watched this, something hit me...

"look at this handrail, put your fingers on it...it'll take them right off?"
"why would someone put their fingers there sir?"

At which point I yelled at the TV "because it's a hand rail, dipsh*t"
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Old September 9 2009, 08:55 PM   #70
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post

And Novakovich didn't die! Maybe you should count "hoary old cliches avoided."
Unexpected (*½)

Four episodes in and we have a holodeck showing up. Why?
Maybe you should count "Nudge-nudge, wink-wink story elements." Things that were supposed to be introduced later, but are shoehorned in here anyway. Like aliens having cloaking technology long before the Federation was supposed to have encountered it. (Oh, it works 100% the same but they call it stealth technology? Okay then!)
Or having the Ferengi and the Borg show up. (Don't worry, it doesn't violate canon-- no one ever asked their name!)
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Old September 9 2009, 10:57 PM   #71
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Leaping back in time for a second to Strange New Worlds...

TheGodBen wrote:
it is upsetting that the best the writers could come up with is Trip shouting for fifteen minutes.
Dude, that's what kept me awake through the episode.

Now, back in the present, and I'm 95% sure this wasn't a deleted scene... how has no-one picked up on the scene where you basically get 2 Klingons standing on a rise overlooking the High Council Chamber, and one of them utters the line "I can see my house from here!"

Are they Klingons or gimps?
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Old September 10 2009, 01:10 AM   #72
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Going by the ratings you've been handing out, ENT will score much lower than VOY in the end.
Voyager had a strong first season followed by a lot of average seasons, and the first half of season 3 was abysmal, whereas Enterprise's ace in the hole was its final two seasons. To be honest, I might be judging the show a little more harshly than I did the first time I saw it because I know how good it can get.

HopefulRomantic wrote: View Post
Jimmy Bob is also doing a "my impressions of Enterprise" thread. Here is his reaction to "Strange New World" and Trip:

However this episode is way better and way more entertaining than Flight or Fight. Because of Trip. Trip rules. I realize that now. I don't know how I could not see this before. That scene in the cave, where Trip goes mad... that was so awesome and intense. And I believe T'Pol was really frightened in her vulcan way. It really felt like he is really going to kill T'Pol. Trip is awesome. Not because he yells and points guns at women... he just is. It's something you feel. I can't explain it.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
Oh no, now Jimmy Bob is sending agents out to get me! Probably because he's not man enough to face me after our last disagreement. (Never drink and post kids, the results are not pretty.)

JB2005 wrote: View Post
Unexpected...

when I first watched this, something hit me...

"look at this handrail, put your fingers on it...it'll take them right off?"
"why would someone put their fingers there sir?"

At which point I yelled at the TV "because it's a hand rail, dipsh*t"
sfdebris did I good bit about that in his review of the episode. "handrail handrail handrail."

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Maybe you should count "Nudge-nudge, wink-wink story elements." Things that were supposed to be introduced later, but are shoehorned in here anyway. Like aliens having cloaking technology long before the Federation was supposed to have encountered it. (Oh, it works 100% the same but they call it stealth technology? Okay then!)
But stealth technology and cloaking devices are completely different things! I don't know how you can compare the two!

Tallis Rhul wrote: View Post
Now, back in the present, and I'm 95% sure this wasn't a deleted scene... how has no-one picked up on the scene where you basically get 2 Klingons standing on a rise overlooking the High Council Chamber, and one of them utters the line "I can see my house from here!"

Are they Klingons or gimps?
The first time I heard that I thought I had imagined it. I couldn't believe they actually had him say it.


Terra Nova (*)



This is a picture of Earth. Chances are that you have lived every second of your life somewhere on the planet. The human population is estimated to be 6.783 billion people.



This is a picture of New York City, United States, with an official population in excess of 8 million people. You've probably heard of it at some point.



This is a picture of Mumbai, India, with an official population of almost 14 million people. You've probably heard of this city too.



This is a picture of Akoupé, Ivory Coast, with a population of almost 36,000 people. You've probably never heard of it.

Can anyone guess what the connection between these three cities is? You have 10 minutes to give me an answer.

...

If you answered "these are three cities within viewing distance of one another" then you'd be incorrect. It would actually be incredibly difficult for me to express how incorrect you would be. But if you answered "these are three cities TheGodBen has never been to" then you would be partially correct. If you answered "these are three cities in countries that TheGodBen has never been to" then you'd be close, but not quite at the right answer. If you answered "these are three cities on three separate continents and TheGodBen has never even been to any of those continents despite how frickin huge they are" then you'd be correct, but I'm annoyed that you left the 'g' off the word "fricking". We're not savages.

A pet peeve of mine is any time the characters have to act stupid in order to get the plot to work, and in this case an entire society of humanity's best and brightest have to forget just how big a planet is and start acting like petulant children in order to get the plot to work. It might have been okay if the story itself had been interesting enough to make up for how stupid it is, but the episode just fluctuates between being boring, irritating and stupid. I mean, why would any society replace the word "hungry" with "belly hollow"? That's a whole extra word! And don't pretend that 4 year-olds don't know the word "hungry" because it's probably one of the first words that you learn.

Bah, who cares?

TRAVIS: All these years wondering about that colony. I never thought I'd become part of their history.
ARCHER: Tell you what, Travis. Why don't you put together the report for Starfleet. If I'm not mistaken, it'll be headline news back home.
TUCKER: The Terra Nova puzzle, solved at last, as told by Ensign Travis Mayweather.
TRAVIS: Thank you, sir.
Yes, I'm sure that's why he signed on to become a pilot, because of the glorious paperwork. And what the hell is he doing eating with the Big Three anyway? He doesn't normally eat with them, and it's not like as if he actually did something in the story to warrant him being there. Is this some Affirmative Action requirement that Travis eat with them just once?

I'll give Archer a pass on the redshirt thing because in all the dangerous situations he put himself into I can justify having a captain involved rather than a lowly ensign. But today we learned the name of Phlox's species, so I'll add them to the counter.

Disappearing Aliens: 4
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Old September 10 2009, 01:34 AM   #73
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
...

'Right off the bat,' in my opinion, is the wrong time to play the 'characters do strange and out-of-character things under influence.'
I never thought about that when I saw the episode because I only saw two episodes in the initial run, then saw them in mixed order. By the time I bought the DVD's and saw that episode I already had a feeling about the characters.
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Old September 10 2009, 01:51 AM   #74
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Unexpected was the episode I was looking forward to. I kept hearing about Trip getting pregnant but never got to see the episode until I bought the DVD's. When I watched it I had very mixed feelings. Having watched a lot of Enterprise before this I had labeled Trip as trough but caring guy next door type. In this episode he started out as a big whiner. Watching the entire acclimation process was a chore. Only the scenes dealing with pregnancy were good. I could edit this episode into a great 15 minute featurette.
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Old September 10 2009, 02:38 AM   #75
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Oh no, now Jimmy Bob is sending agents out to get me! Probably because he's not man enough to face me after our last disagreement. (Never drink and post kids, the results are not pretty.)
What disagreement? We've never disagreed in the way as I think you are putting it. As I said in that thread: "Re-read it in John Cleese's voice, perhaps that will help to make the intended tone clearer."

What I thought I was doing, was writing an exaggerated loud post, like anyone else was doing in that thread. I thought that I'd be funny, and then you'd be funny and then everyone would laugh and enjoy the peaceful hippie sun of love and fellowship, but suddenly everyone was yelling at me. I was really trying to be a good reader like everyone else. It was just misinterpreted. It happened here too, when I was being called a racist bastard after just my first post... I guess it was the lack of an avatar that had that effect.

Anyway, we've never have had an actual conflict from my point of view, which why there has been no reason to "face you like a man."

And that priest/boy analogy for Unexpected? That's a bit stretching an interpretation too far, isn't it? All I could think was: "Yeah Trip! You're the man! Damn I wish I was you!" That is, before he got pregnant.
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