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Old September 9 2009, 01:25 AM   #16
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
And they'll stay on the the street as long as they think goverenment [sic] going to hand them a job.
I deal with quite a few unemployed and more than a few homeless folks.

None of them "think government is going to hand them a job," although many would like a little more help of some kind. For the most part this POV is a smug fiction entertained by the unafflicted and comfortable - though I'm sure you can repeat or at least link (ah, the wonders of the Internet) to an anecdote of some kind that "proves" me wrong.
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Old September 9 2009, 01:57 AM   #17
26138
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Middle Earther wrote: View Post
I honestly want to know why we need to go to the moon again. I am saying that wanting to know what real benefits we could conceivably achieve with more moon missions at this point in time.

Anyone care to chime in on this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Spinoff
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Old September 9 2009, 01:59 AM   #18
sojourner
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

None of them "think government is going to hand them a job," although many would like a little more help of some kind. For the most part this POV is a smug fiction entertained by the unafflicted and comfortable - though I'm sure you can repeat or at least link (ah, the wonders of the Internet) to an anecdote of some kind that "proves" me wrong.
True enough, but space program dollars are still spent on earth.
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Old September 9 2009, 02:38 AM   #19
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post

Bush never had NASA on his front burner. But he commissioned the design and construction of the Ares system. Obama has no concrete plan to replace the shuttles. and the plan for the International Space Station is now to "DE-ORBIT" it in the tear 2015.
Familiar with the concept of "busy work"? It's when you do work that makes you look like you're achieving something hen you're just spinning your wheels. By setting tasks for NASA but not giving them the actual money to achieve anything is a prime example of busy work.

Secondly Ares is intended as a replacement for the shuttle so why should Obama set NASA the goal of designing the replacement - they've already got the thing on the drawing board.

Finally as pointed out in another thread, that design work Bush got NASA to do is turning in a total cluster fuck.
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Old September 9 2009, 03:03 AM   #20
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

26138 wrote: View Post
Middle Earther wrote: View Post
I honestly want to know why we need to go to the moon again. I am saying that wanting to know what real benefits we could conceivably achieve with more moon missions at this point in time.

Anyone care to chime in on this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Spinoff
I agree that there have been a lot of spinoff from NASA, but why, specifically, the moon? Don't we get a lot of this benefit from the space station/shuttle program?
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Old September 9 2009, 03:40 AM   #21
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Space travel is more important than health care.
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Old September 9 2009, 04:59 AM   #22
Lindley
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Middle Earther wrote: View Post
I agree that there have been a lot of spinoff from NASA, but why, specifically, the moon? Don't we get a lot of this benefit from the space station/shuttle program?
It gives us a good testing ground for Mars technologies, while still being in emergency-return range of Earth.

I mean, we need to figure out how to set up automated mining systems somewhere, and helium-3 gives us something to dig for at least.
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Old September 9 2009, 05:37 AM   #23
drychlick
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

if he not going to get the money for health care! he not going to get the money for space. but fear not we get there 1 day maybe not in our life time but 1 day! let work on earth 1st! like geting people job ! we got 4 billion year till the sun go nova! love don
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Old September 9 2009, 05:44 AM   #24
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Dennis wrote: View Post

I deal with quite a few unemployed and more than a few homeless folks.

None of them "think government is going to hand them a job," although many would like a little more help of some kind. For the most part this POV is a smug fiction entertained by the unafflicted and comfortable - though I'm sure you can repeat or at least link (ah, the wonders of the Internet) to an anecdote of some kind that "proves" me wrong.
How many were unemployed/homeless before last fall? How many are under 26, but haven't joined the service?. The harvest starts all over this country about now, how many won't get their hands dirty? The big farms run buses into the cities every year.

McDonald's is always hiring, and the armys always recruiting.

Don't want a "internet anecdote" So I asked my dad, in the thirty-nine years he's been out of high school he's been unemployed twenty-three days.
Since leaving the service has worked many jobs and even though he hasn't driven trucks in years, he maintances a CDL, just in case.

Good thing Obama's raising the debt ceiling again, better to help "your folks"

What is the difference between the gov. helping them a litttle and the gov. just handing them my money? I guess I'm just a smug little thing.
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Old September 9 2009, 06:09 AM   #25
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

SG-17 wrote: View Post
Space travel is more important than health care.

Even if you canceled NASA's budget entirely the money saved wouldn't cover 5% of health care.
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Old September 9 2009, 07:07 AM   #26
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
SNIP
This is not the right forum for this crap, but I shouldn't really expect any better from this OP.
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Old September 9 2009, 07:47 AM   #27
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

I can't say I disagree with the recommendation to dump Ares. The whole Constellation program seems like a step back from the space shuttle. Personally (irrelevant opinion), I'd rather see them putting heavy resources into a next generation reusable craft
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Old September 9 2009, 11:57 AM   #28
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post

I deal with quite a few unemployed and more than a few homeless folks.

None of them "think government is going to hand them a job," although many would like a little more help of some kind. For the most part this POV is a smug fiction entertained by the unafflicted and comfortable - though I'm sure you can repeat or at least link (ah, the wonders of the Internet) to an anecdote of some kind that "proves" me wrong.
How many were unemployed/homeless before last fall? How many are under 26, but haven't joined the service?. The harvest starts all over this country about now, how many won't get their hands dirty? The big farms run buses into the cities every year.

McDonald's is always hiring, and the armys always recruiting.

Don't want a "internet anecdote" So I asked my dad, in the thirty-nine years he's been out of high school he's been unemployed twenty-three days.
Since leaving the service has worked many jobs and even though he hasn't driven trucks in years, he maintances a CDL, just in case.

Good thing Obama's raising the debt ceiling again, better to help "your folks"

What is the difference between the gov. helping them a litttle and the gov. just handing them my money? I guess I'm just a smug little thing.
Yes, you are. Your father is very fortunate. Millions and millions of other Americans are not.

I applaud this move if it comes to pass.

Just say "NO" to wasteful space programs!
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Old September 9 2009, 01:05 PM   #29
Deks
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
And they'll stay on the the street as long as they think goverenment going to hand them a job.

But okay, if you want gov. increasing employment . the apollo moon program, at it's max, was employing hundreds of thousands of americans. Directly and indirectly, thru contractors, areospace companys, and yes thru trickle down to the support community.

Obama made it very clear during last years camplain that NASA's budget was most likely to be reduced during his first year.

That's his space plan. And it's not waiting for the release of a report. the report is unimportant.

Bush never had NASA on his front burner. But he commissioned the design and construction of the Ares system. Obama has no concrete plan to replace the shuttles. and the plan for the International Space Station is now to be "DE-ORBIT" it in the tear 2015.
An interesting perspective.
How about the homeless individuals who want to get off the streets and find jobs but can't due to the circumstances and regulations that put them in a catch 22 situation?
Such as having a permanent address for example (shelters btw cannot be counted as such) which also excludes potential friends who are already productive members of society since we are talking about people without connections to begin with.

The point is ... since the government has been doing essentially nothing to help out these people get back into society even before the recession hit, I don't see how reducing the NASA budget even further would help the recession or prevent loss of jobs in the mainstream when the military for example seems to have a limitless source of funds that are being squandered at every turn.

Forgive me, but the government had loads of opportunities to divert the money from other sources in order to 'fix things right here on Earth' in the past and nobody ever did anything.
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Old September 9 2009, 01:53 PM   #30
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Re: Obama Space Plan: Return to Moon: "No Go"

Mr. B wrote: View Post
I can't say I disagree with the recommendation to dump Ares. The whole Constellation program seems like a step back from the space shuttle. Personally (irrelevant opinion), I'd rather see them putting heavy resources into a next generation reusable craft
Outside of looking somewhat like Apollo, they're not similar.
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