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Old September 5 2009, 03:25 AM   #1
marcus.t
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ds9 blu ray

Any one know when it's out?
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Old September 5 2009, 03:27 AM   #2
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: ds9 blu ray

marcus.t wrote: View Post
Any one know when it's out?
Probably never.

DS9 (along with TNG and Voyager) would be impossible to release on Blu-Ray without massive alterations. The effects and editing were all done on videotape, whose maximum resolution is so low that it would make a BR release impossible.

To release those three shows on BR, all of the effects would have to be done over again, from scratch. Just like they did with TOS. And since there are seven seasons, of three shows each, that they would have to do, I don't ever imagine this would happen, since it would take too long and be way too expensive.

As far as I know, Enterprise is the only Trek show that is airable in HD from the get-go. They could release ENT in Blu-Ray right now.
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Old September 5 2009, 03:35 AM   #3
marcus.t
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Re: ds9 blu ray

I see ur point,not really into the idea of buying all those dvds!,maybe they could redo the pilot as a way of luring people in!
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Old September 5 2009, 03:38 AM   #4
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: ds9 blu ray

They may do a Fan Collective in blu-ray, but that will probably be it.

From what I hear, even though "Trials and Tribble-ations" will appear on the TOS Season 2 Blu-Ray set (paired with The Trouble With Tribbles), the DS9 episode itself will not be in HD, unlike the TOS episodes in that set.
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Old September 5 2009, 08:32 PM   #5
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Re: ds9 blu ray

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
DS9 (along with TNG and Voyager) would be impossible to release on Blu-Ray without massive alterations. The effects and editing were all done on videotape, whose maximum resolution is so low that it would make a BR release impossible.
Which makes me wonder how they were able to put non-remastered TOS on Blu-Ray. Unless that was shot/edited differently.
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Old September 5 2009, 08:42 PM   #6
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Re: ds9 blu ray

As has been said in other threads (check the TOS forum), TOS was shot AND EDITED on actual film, so you could theoretically watch them on an actual film projector in a movie theater and they would still look good.

Non-remastered TOS on Blu was more due to fan demand than ultimate image quality - that's why they did TOS:R in the first place, because they originally decided that the old FX wouldn't look that good at such high res.

The key here is "and edited". The modern series were shot on film but only exist in their final forms on video, and even at that, non-HD video, as 400-odd line LaserDisc/SVHS was about as good as it got 10 to 15 years ago. For them to look acceptable on BluRay, each series - TNG, DS9 and VOY would essentially have to be put back into post production, every episode's edits duplicated from the ground up, and all the FX, if not at least re-composited with current equipment, then re-created digitally a la TOS:R. TOS:R was 3 seasons, T/D/V total 21 seasons - that's seven times the amount of FX work, plus all the editing.

If it happens at all, it won't be any time soon.
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Old September 5 2009, 09:25 PM   #7
msbae
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Re: ds9 blu ray

TNG, DS9 and VOY will be released on Blu-Ray sooner or later. There will be plenty of demand for those shows (well, maybe not VOY) from fans. If it doesn't appear on Blu-Ray, it might appear on Blu-Ray's successor technology. It will take some time to recomposite all the FX.
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Old September 5 2009, 09:40 PM   #8
Dac
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Re: ds9 blu ray

msbae wrote: View Post
TNG, DS9 and VOY will be released on Blu-Ray sooner or later. There will be plenty of demand for those shows (well, maybe not VOY) from fans. If it doesn't appear on Blu-Ray, it might appear on Blu-Ray's successor technology. It will take some time to recomposite all the FX.

It would cost millions to redo all the effects in High definition. Millions. I highly doubt they'll make back an investment of that much, unless they sell it to syndication much like TOS-R prior to a Blu ray release.
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Old September 6 2009, 02:09 AM   #9
WHF
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Re: ds9 blu ray

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
DS9 (along with TNG and Voyager) would be impossible to release on Blu-Ray without massive alterations. The effects and editing were all done on videotape, whose maximum resolution is so low that it would make a BR release impossible.
Which makes me wonder how they were able to put non-remastered TOS on Blu-Ray. Unless that was shot/edited differently.
I thinks this question stems from the incorrect use of remastered. Every episode on the TOS blu-ray disks are remastered whether they have new special effects or not.

The other point you may be trying to make is correct. There is no problem putting standard def material on a blu-ray, in fact a lot of special features are in 480 resolution on many blu-rays.

DS9 can be put on blu-ray right now. It might benefit from less compression but it will probably only be a marginal improvement.
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Old September 6 2009, 04:30 AM   #10
Vanyel
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Re: ds9 blu ray

Expense, as said before, is the key factor here. If it can be brought down, then TNG, DS9 & VOY could all be rereleased in blue ray. But by then Super Hi-Vision could be out, and the problem of money and weather or not it could even be redone in Super Hi-Vision would be problems.
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Old September 6 2009, 04:47 AM   #11
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Re: ds9 blu ray

TNG i can see coming out on Blu-Ray at some point. Ds9 and voyager will probably take a while longer. Something else to consider is that as HD becomes more of a standard, people will begin to expect that quality. If DS9 and Voy are to survive in syndication in an HD world, they may just require an HD remake
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Old September 6 2009, 05:15 AM   #12
Kurros
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Re: ds9 blu ray

I don't think it will ever happen or that it needs to.
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Old September 6 2009, 08:07 AM   #13
PhasersOnStun
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Re: ds9 blu ray

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
DS9 (along with TNG and Voyager) would be impossible to release on Blu-Ray without massive alterations. The effects and editing were all done on videotape, whose maximum resolution is so low that it would make a BR release impossible.

To release those three shows on BR, all of the effects would have to be done over again, from scratch. Just like they did with TOS.
This is a misunderstanding of the requirements of blu-ray playback. Here is my understanding:

In order for content to be properly decoded by the blu-ray specification, it needs to be encoded in high definition. However, it doesn't need to be remastered and redone. It can simply be "upscaled" which basically is like blowing up the print of a photograph. It might look good, it might not, but it can be done.

What they did with TOS is they did a complete remastering of the original film. This means that they didn't simply run the film and then digitize it at 1080p resolution. It meant that they also cleaned up the film to remove the effects of film aging, redid warbled audio tracks, etc. That is the definition of "remastering."

The enhanced effects is actually another issue. They chose to do that to update the look of the shows for new viewers because the '60s TV effects are really showing their age. But the remastering process itself does not require "re-CGI-ing" the original film.

Now, that is the highest quality and most expensive way to deliver material on blu-ray. The other way is to simply take the material as it is (at normal television resolution of 480p) and "upscale" the material. Upscaling is not an artistic process like remastering, it is a mathmatical process by which 480p resolution images are interpolated into 1080p resolution images.

Here's an extreme example: if you wanted to, you could make a screen capture video on your PC of something playing on YouTube, and with the right software and hardware encode it to play in a blu-ray player. The original resolution would be terrible, the upscaled version would be just as bad if not worse, but it would play from your blu-ray player as "high def" even though it really is just a blown up (upscaled) low-res screen capture video.

My understanding is that for the DS9 episode on the season 2 TOS blu-ray, it is being "upscaled." Meaning the 480p resolution original will be interpolated to play from a blu-ray player at 1080p. But it will not be remastered, it hasn't been improved in any way.

The point of all this explanation is that if CBS/Paramount wanted to, they could release TNG, DS9, and VOY on blu-ray without too much work, just upscaling, which is not a terribly expensive process—nor is it a particularly good looking process. But it is achievable.

Remastering would run into all the hurdles that Mr. Beam and others have pointed out, and would likely not happen.

I do expect that at some point, an upscaled version will come out on blu-ray. It's quality may be marginally better than the DVD, but I'm guessing the main benefit (if any) will not be quality, but that blu-rays have more storage capacity, which means the discs could take up less room and/or include more extra features.
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Old September 6 2009, 11:44 PM   #14
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: ds9 blu ray

There wouldn't be any point to upscaling TNG, DS9 or VOY and releasing them on Blu-Ray now. You will get the same result by simply playing your standard definition DVDs on a HDTV. (If the DVD player doesn't upscale, the HDTV will. Because if it didn't, you would only get a tiny postage stamp sized picture in the middle of the screen, surrounded by a huge black bar on all four sides.)

The whole point of a Blu-Ray release is to have it really be in HD.
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Old September 7 2009, 12:26 AM   #15
PhasersOnStun
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Re: ds9 blu ray

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
There wouldn't be any point to upscaling TNG, DS9 or VOY and releasing them on Blu-Ray now. You will get the same result by simply playing your standard definition DVDs on a HDTV.
Agreed. But—

The whole point of a Blu-Ray release is to have it really be in HD.
Depends on perspective. To you and me and perhaps most fans, you're absolutely right. But from the perspective of a studio, the "whole point" might be to sell more units, either to new buyers who don't own a particularly series on DVD yet and were waiting for the blu-ray, or for current owners who will re-purchase even with no advantage, just to have the "latest and greatest" (even if we're not them, we know they're out there...)
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