(UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

[HappyDayRiot]

I was a bit quick to blame Millwall it's true. The trouble inside the stadium was, according to SSN this morning, entirely down to the West Ham 'fans'. The scenes outside though... well I thought those days were long gone. Certainly before my lifetime. I know it's a game you might anticipate trouble in, but on this scale, clearly planned by dozens or hundreds of people? Why now? Indeed, why at all?

[Starkers]

HappyDayRiot wrote:

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I was a bit quick to blame Millwall it's true. The trouble inside the stadium was, according to SSN this morning, entirely down to the West Ham 'fans'. The scenes outside though... well I thought those days were long gone. Certainly before my lifetime. I know it's a game you might anticipate trouble in, but on this scale, clearly planned by dozens or hundreds of people? Why now? Indeed, why at all?

Why now is, I'm guessing, because these two don't play each other too often anymore. I really had thought we'd seen an end to this but obviously not.

The easiest option is to punish the clubs, but can they really be held responsible for dozens of fans firing emails and each other and arranging to meet for a fight outside the ground? The pitch invasion yeah that definitely is down to the club, but being held responsible for events on the way to the match? I dunno...and as usual the club and the majority of decent supporters (I'm sure Millwall have them) are the ones who are punished. Most of the hooligans probably don't give a shit about the club anyway.

Given that Derby and Forest are playing at the weekend I really hope this isn't the herald of further trouble...

[HappyDayRiot]

Didn't Millwall cause trouble at Hull in the FA Cup last season? I don't remember a lot happening by way of punishment over that. I know it's nothing like the same severity or scale of last night, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the FA pass up the chance to take a strangehold over this and hand out swift and brutal punishment. Ban every person found being part of the violence, have some closed door matches and bring hefty criminal charges for all the destruction and harm caused, including conspiracy charges in relation to public order offences.

Not even our matches with Swansea had particularly bad trouble last year, and we've hardly played them that often in recent memory. This sort of thing is supposed to be consigned to the past, even amongst the more infamous rivalries.

[Roger Wilco]

I just saw the pictures, that was really surprisingly bad, very 80s retro ; there's simply no excuse for pitch invasions while the game is still going on.
But I don't think clubs should be punished for anything that happens outside the stadium - what more can they do but ban troublemakers? They don't have any authority on the streets.

[Hermiod]

^They do have authority over the sport in England, though. If Rafa Benitez criticises a referee at a press conference at Liverpool's training ground then they'll go after him. If they can do that then they can act against West Ham and Millwall.

Millwall fans have a reputation that, unfortunately, is well earned. There seems to be organised violence whenever they play certain teams which cannot be explained by local rivalries. Leeds and Cardiff are not local.

Portions of West Ham's support played in to this, however, but they played another team their fans hate - Tottenham - at home on Sunday without incident.

I have been to a number of West Ham games and have noticed a level of fan anger and hostility that I haven't seen when watching my own team or others.

[StolenThunder]

^ I think Roger means the clubs don't have authority, not the FA.

Millwall were the first team I went to see play as a kid. The hostility is there at the New Den too, though that's mixed in with lots of entirely genuine, and excellent, fans. It's a shame for them. Plenty of people have given up going because of the violence.

[Tomalak]

Jax wrote:

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I cudn't believe how many pundits said Liverpool were going to win the title or get really close again. Looking at the players you lost and what you brought in, the squad size or should I say overall quality is quite shocking compared to what you've had in recent years. Your first 11 is a solid one but everyone gets injuries and I just don't buy the likes of Insua, Lucas, Babel, N'Gog etc can help you win anything...

"In recent years"? You mean when Traore, Biscan, Baros, Cisse, Zenden, Pennant, Bellamy, and Kewell were key players? We may have had more established players, but they weren't good enough to win the league by any means. Our squad is as good as it's been under Rafa, but he's had the rug pulled out from under him this season. We've not significantly strengthened the squad because we're had to sell to buy. That's no way to win the league.

What's wrong with Insua? He's a class player, offering us genuine width and forward momentum. He's a far better player than Rafael, who won plaudits last year.

Glen Johnson price tag is a joke only beaten by Lescott's tag, the boy is good going forward but is far too easy to get pass when it comes to defending. Alonso leaving was the last nail in the coffin to any PL bid and now I think your the team that are suspectable to losing your top 4 place like in 2005 though I still expect you to finish 4th.

Glen Johnson has been our best player so far. I, and most other reds, can't fault his signing. He cost a lot, but that's what you have to pay for quality players in the Man City inflated market.

[Jax]

I just don't rate Johnson as a defender, he seems more in the mould of attacking wing back you would see Brazil produce. I think in the long run as a defender Richards has the better potential.

If liverpool miss out on a top 4, which I don't think they wil but if they do will Rafa leave and what for the owners.

[Tomalak]

But we didn't need a defender, we needed a wingback who would help break teams down at Anfield. He was instrumental in the 4-0 win against Stoke, a team we drew twice against last season. He wasn't to blame for the defeats against Spurs (where he won a penalty) or Villa, and in fact was out best player in both matches.

Richards is a brainless athlete who can't be trusted to play centre back, but offers nothing going forward as a fullback.

[Jax]

Tomalak wrote:

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But we didn't need a defender, we needed a wingback who would help break teams down at Anfield. He was instrumental in the 4-0 win against Stoke, a team we drew twice against last season. He wasn't to blame for the defeats against Spurs (where he won a penalty) or Villa, and in fact was out best player in both matches.

Richards is a brainless athlete who can't be trusted to play centre back, but offers nothing going forward as a fullback.

I just think first and foremost a defender should be able to defend and attacking is a bonus. Johnson leaves your actual defence weaker than when Arbeloa was there IMO.

[Tomalak]

He has yet to let us down defensively, but he's contributed hugely in attack. With Kuyt ahead of him, and Mascherano in midfield, there is always going to be cover for him.

Arbeloa was a good defender, but offered too little going forward. In most of our home games, he might as well not have been on the pitch. He wasn't flawless, if you recall his failure to cut out the cross for Riise's famous own goal in the Chelsea semi a couple of years ago. A lot of his play was very casual, and he lacked pace against fast wingers.

We've improved the position without doubt.

[HappyDayRiot]

Well looks like all the English teams will progress in Europe and Rangers have a reasonable chance too against Stuttgart and Sevilla. Of the four teams I think United have the worst draw - two very teams and two less-than wonderful away games. Liverpool only really to worry about Fiorentina, Chelsea shouldn't have too much trouble and Arsenal look to have the easiest group in the history of the competition.

Amazing how all four avoided the best Spanish and Italians. Barca/Inter and Milan/Madrid should have some great games in their groups. I like how it was all talk about Ronaldo v United but instead we get the returns of Eto'o, Ibrahimovic and Kaka.

[Roger Wilco]

HappyDayRiot wrote:

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Well looks like all the English teams will progress in Europe and Rangers have a reasonable chance too against Stuttgart and Sevilla.

Thanks to the fucking ref. It's not over yet!

[HappyDayRiot]

Haha I was actually just talking about the Champions League!

That second penalty sounded very soft to me. I hope it doesn't prove the decisive moment - the first was well-saved by Payer.

[Roger Wilco]

Oh well, ok then.