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Old August 25 2009, 07:34 PM   #2416
Frazzled
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Human Error (**)

I'd almost prefer to watch Kim and Neelix to get it on because I think those two might display better chemistry towards one another.

And why not indeed?
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Old August 25 2009, 08:23 PM   #2417
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I won't get into the argument because I happen to like C/7--although it could have been presented on screen better, but I strongly disagree with the moderator.

For once we finally got to see what *Seven* wants--not what the Doctor or the Captain want for Seven.
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Old August 25 2009, 09:13 PM   #2418
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
I won't get into the argument because I happen to like C/7--although it could have been presented on screen better, but I strongly disagree with the moderator.

For once we finally got to see what *Seven* wants--not what the Doctor or the Captain want for Seven.
The problem was that what Seven wanted was kind of boring. Which was actually interesting from a character development point of view, but not very entertaining to watch.
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Old August 25 2009, 09:21 PM   #2419
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
Man, I hate not logging on for a month. I'm soo far behind.

In summary, I agree with GodBen. On generally everything.

Now, let's carry on.
welcome back!

*hides under covers to lurk some more*
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Old August 25 2009, 09:27 PM   #2420
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kes7 wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
I won't get into the argument because I happen to like C/7--although it could have been presented on screen better, but I strongly disagree with the moderator.

For once we finally got to see what *Seven* wants--not what the Doctor or the Captain want for Seven.
The problem was that what Seven wanted was kind of boring. Which was actually interesting from a character development point of view, but not very entertaining to watch.
Well, yeah, but how else to show that she wanted such simple things as *quarters*--where she could have a modicum of privacy?

I found it fascinating that Seven didn't consider herself worthy of such simple things until she was "fully human"--which to her meant all implants gone.
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Old August 25 2009, 09:29 PM   #2421
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
kes7 wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
I won't get into the argument because I happen to like C/7--although it could have been presented on screen better, but I strongly disagree with the moderator.

For once we finally got to see what *Seven* wants--not what the Doctor or the Captain want for Seven.
The problem was that what Seven wanted was kind of boring. Which was actually interesting from a character development point of view, but not very entertaining to watch.
Well, yeah, but how else to show that she wanted such simple things as *quarters*--where she could have a modicum of privacy?

I found it fascinating that Seven didn't consider herself worthy of such simple things until she was "fully human"--which to her meant all implants gone.
I didn't consider that but you're right...
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Old August 25 2009, 10:16 PM   #2422
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I never understood whey they didn't close off her area of the Cargo Bay and turn it into quarters for her. Or even better, move the damn alcove into an actual residential room, if that was possible. Or she could have adapted her neural transceiver the same way she did Icheb's when he was going to go live on Brunali, so she could also have a nice little portable regenerator and some quarters of her own.

I mean, maybe this wouldn't have been a good idea right away, but certainly once she'd been there for years and proved herself a valued member of the crew! I started to think Janeway just got off on watching her sleep. (And I'm so not a J/7 kind of girl, but the way she would just barge in there without knocking when Seven was regenerating was a little sketchy.)
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Old August 25 2009, 10:23 PM   #2423
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It may be interesting that Seven didn't consider herself worthy of quarters until she was "fully human" but that concept was wrapped up in an awful episode.

Did Seven request quarters and get turned down?
Was Seven offered quarters and turned them down?
Are there technical/medical reasons quarters were never on the table?

A few throwaway lines in ANY episode could have resolved that burning question without subjecting us to "Human Error". Unfortunately, this episode brings up some other disturbing questions:

Why is holo-addiction ok when it's Seven but not ok when it's Barclay?

What are the ethical ramifications of using another crew member's hologram for personal uses?

No punishment for Seven abandoning her post? Hello?

The emotional dampener: Gee, all this human development going on for Seven and she never noticed her emotions were being dampened? If the dampener was not with her all her years on Voyager but was part of Icheb's cortical node how could she not notice the difference afterwards?

Sorry, this episode is so problematic that any "interesting" questions brought up during it just get buried in the sludge.
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Old August 25 2009, 10:29 PM   #2424
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Good points, Kim. I always assumed that she was stuck in the cargo bay because she was so depenedent on the regeneration alcove. Remember that the equipment was installed by the Borg, not by the crew, and so may not have been easily moved to private quarters. And she didn't seem all that interested in socializing, did she? When she took over the Borg kids, someone had to tell her to program in "recreation time."
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Old August 25 2009, 10:37 PM   #2425
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

AuntKate wrote: View Post
Good points, Kim. I always assumed that she was stuck in the cargo bay because she was so depenedent on the regeneration alcove. Remember that the equipment was installed by the Borg, not by the crew, and so may not have been easily moved to private quarters. And she didn't seem all that interested in socializing, did she? When she took over the Borg kids, someone had to tell her to program in "recreation time."

Even if it couldn't be moved, they could have made the area more private for her.

She certainly complained when the Doctor barged in--and that was season 5.

As for socializing--are you arguing that someone who keeps to herself doesn't deserve to have privacy? Else, I'm not sure what one has to do with another...

And to kes7, yeah, I found how Janeway just invited herself in rather sketchy, too.
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Old August 25 2009, 10:43 PM   #2426
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
Sorry, this episode is so problematic that any "interesting" questions brought up during it just get buried in the sludge.
Well, sorry, but I disagree.
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Old August 25 2009, 11:47 PM   #2427
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I find it very strange that the emotional dampener only works when strong emotions are felt, because if I was the queen andI wanted to prevent drones from escaping, I'd have it activate at the slightest bit of emotion.
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Old August 26 2009, 12:26 AM   #2428
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I always wondered if the strong emotion that was dampened was actually sexual arousal, which seemed to be what short-circuited her brain in "Human Error." If it was sexual arousal that was the problem, it is easier to see why previous strong emotions she experienced (such as the grief she felt when One died) didn't bring about the same result.
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Old August 26 2009, 12:55 AM   #2429
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

AuntKate wrote: View Post
I always wondered if the strong emotion that was dampened was actually sexual arousal, which seemed to be what short-circuited her brain in "Human Error." If it was sexual arousal that was the problem, it is easier to see why previous strong emotions she experienced (such as the grief she felt when One died) didn't bring about the same result.
But that makes no sense in-story -- drones would be a lot less likely to cause trouble with sexual arousal than with, say, strong remorse or grief. Also, she collapsed when they were fighting, and she looked pretty upset. If that was sexual arousal, I'm not sure what that says about Seven. I'm not saying that's not what the writers of that episode intended, but it doesn't add up for me.

I personally lean toward the fanwank theory that it was part of Icheb's original programming, but not Seven's. But there are some inconsistencies with that, as well. So, pretty much, I think it's just sloppy writing.
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Old August 26 2009, 02:32 AM   #2430
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

teya wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
Sorry, this episode is so problematic that any "interesting" questions brought up during it just get buried in the sludge.
Well, sorry, but I disagree.
Shhhh! Don't disagree with the moderators! It makes them angry and they start recklessly flinging lightning bolts around the place. Innocent people (and largely guilty people like me) might get hit in the crossfire.

Human Error seems to have finally sparked some life into the place, so don't mind me, feel free to continue your discussion.


Q2 (*)



Okay, I've got to admit, that's pretty funny. I'll give that a point.

Watching this episode inspired me to make this video, so if you've got 7 minutes please check it out and revel in some of the best scene's TNG had to offer.

If you watched the video then you probably know what my point is going to be; Q is at his best when he is teaching humanity something rather than the other way around. Q was at his worst on TNG during season 1, back when it was the humans teaching him lessons, the only exception to this rule (the exception that proves it ) is Deja Q. But that's just another one of the problems with Q2, isn't it? That it is a rehash of Deja Q where the comic skills of John de Lancie and Brent Spiner are replaced with Keegan de Lancie and Manu Intiraymi, which is a bit of a step down.

(As for Q-Less, Q just seemed to sit around for most of that episode, there didn't seem to be a point for him being there at all. )

So, the plot is stolen, the comedy doesn't work, and it returns to an interpretation of the Q that I don't like.

Q JUNIOR: Settling the planetoid predicament didn't take very long so I used the rest of the time to convince the Cardassian to apologise for the occupation of Bajor. How's that for order in the universe?
Makes sense. When I was going out with my old English girlfriend I forced her to apologise for the occupation of Ireland, because random citizens are authorised to apologise for the actions of the state. President McAlesse was very impressed with my actions, she gave me a medal.

Q JUNIOR: I negotiated a peace treaty between six belligerent species in just thirteen minutes.
JANEWAY: When Commander Chakotay left the room you altered their personality subroutines to make them more agreeable. We may be common bipeds but we're not stupid. Your training is over, go back to your room and wait for your father to return.
I don't know why he was punished for that, I think that Q Junior should be given a commendation for original thinking. But then again, I guess I can't expect Janeway or Q Jr to know much about James T. Kirk.

Fifteen minutes earlier:
ICHEB: Though it was a blatant violation of the Prime Directive, Kirk saved the Pelosians from extinction, just as he had the Baezians and the Chenari many years earlier. Finally, in the year 2270, Kirk completed his historic five year mission and one of the greatest chapters in Starfleet history came to a close. A new chapter began when Kirk regained command of the Enterprise...
JANEWAY: How many more chapters are there?
ICHEB: Thirty four.
...
Q JUNIOR: I would have failed him. Kirk may have been a lowly human, but at least he had pizazz. That report made him sound about as exciting as a Vulcan funeral dirge.
Oh yeah, they listened to an extremely detailed report about Kirk's life earlier in the episode. You'd think they would have remembered the Kobayashi Maru thing, it does tend to stick out.

Q: Oh, before I leave, I did a little homework for you. Consider it a thank you for everything you did for Junior.
JANEWAY: Not that I don't appreciate it, but this will only take a few years off our journey. Why not send us all the way?
Q: What sort of an example would I be setting for my son if I did all the work for you?
Friendship, gratefulness, compassion... a good example, I would say. You could at least warn Janeway not to beam Lt Carey down to that planet, the guy has a wife and kids back home and his death is meaningless, so where's the harm? I know, I know, "bloody nose" and all that, but she did save your son from being turned into an amoeba.
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