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Old August 19 2009, 06:55 AM   #16
sidious618
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Skywalker wrote: View Post
So are they going to keep Dick Grayson as Batman this time? I don't know how the fan reaction to that would be, but I kind of like the idea (I haven't been reading the comics, so I don't know how well it's gone).
No, Bruce will be back before long. Another year or so before he returns, I'm sure, but it'll be soon enough.
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Old August 19 2009, 07:10 AM   #17
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

I didn't think so. Still think it'd be cool, though.
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Old August 19 2009, 09:01 AM   #18
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Of course Bruce will return eventually. I hope they wait a while, though, and avoid some the gimmicky stuff, such as making him the Spectre, etc. I'm enjoying the Batman & Robin book in particular.

While I've never been much of a fan of the Damien Wayne character, setting him up as Robin to Dick's Batman is a great premise. Dick's not only in the position of taking Bruce's mantle, but he also has to basically raise Bruce's son. It's the most interesting thing to happen to Dick Grayson's character since he went off to become Nightwing.

As much as I enjoy the Dick/Tim dynamic and the fan in me would prefer to see it, this set-up's the one with the most intriguing possibilities. It's also fun to see the reversal of the paradigm, with a more light-hearted Batman and a no-nonsense Robin.

I also like that Morrison's scaled back his Batman R.I.P. weirdness to a style of storytelling much more in line with All-Star Superman and some of his earlier DCU work. As complicated as things got in order to get the characters to this point, it's now refreshingly simple, at least as far as Batman & Robin goes.

I'd quit buying most of the monthly books, deciding to just pick and choose from whatever trades interest me, but now I'm picking up this one.
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Old August 19 2009, 12:01 PM   #19
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

coolghoul wrote: View Post
Maybe he gets reborn or something and becomes a Robin to Dick Grayson (and Damien dies?)
That's not so far-fetched. Something very similar happens in The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul -- Ra's has been reincarnated as a zombie (of sorts), and he needs to transfer his spirit into a compatible body. He wants to use Damien's body, because Damien is his grandson.

The precedent is there -- Bruce could need a vessel to store his spirit, and Damien's body would be compatible. In this case, Damien might actually be a willing host, because he venerates his father.
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Old August 19 2009, 01:13 PM   #20
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Skywalker wrote: View Post
So are they going to keep Dick Grayson as Batman this time? I don't know how the fan reaction to that would be, but I kind of like the idea (I haven't been reading the comics, so I don't know how well it's gone).


Of course Bruce will be back. Look what happened to marvel and the Spiderman Clone story, there was a huge fan back lash there. DC wont make the same mistake. Flagship characters always return back to the status quo quickly. Secondary characters like the Flash and Green Lantern have long term changes but even they eventually returned back what they were.

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Old August 20 2009, 12:34 AM   #21
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Question's already been answered, but thanks.

Has there been much of a backlash about Dick taking up the mantle of Batman again?
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Old August 20 2009, 12:41 AM   #22
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

TheBolianChef wrote: View Post
Wait? I thought the Black Hand had his skull?
I hope they don't bring Bruce back as a Black Lantern...I really hate those.
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Old August 20 2009, 02:41 AM   #23
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

I don't think they are going to bring Bruce back as a Black Lantern, since he's not dead, but Black Hand does have an interest in him since he is trapped in that weird rebirth cycle thingy I mentioned in the first post. I think they could still have a Batman Black Lantern though from the body Superman discovered in Final Crisis, that was Bruce's body just his soul part was transferred to the past or whatever. It seems kind of confusing. Lots of fan speculation before Blackest Night that there would be a Black Lantern Batman. I don't think it's going to happen.

I haven't really read that much of a backlash against Dick as Batman...most people seem to be really enjoying Batman and Robin. I'm just curious about Bruce because nothing has really been announced yet. I guess they're going to play this out the rest of the year before doing anything with Bruce.
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Old August 20 2009, 02:51 AM   #24
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

So what exactly is happening to Bruce right now? (I've been out of touch for awhile.) I'm a bit unclear about this 'endless cycle' business...

Wasn't kidding about the Black Lanterns, BTW. They seem like second-rate zombies. Normally the idea of a separate Corps for each color would be very fascinating to me (and, apart from the black, it still is), but even so...
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Old August 20 2009, 02:57 AM   #25
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
So what exactly is happening to Bruce right now? (I've been out of touch for awhile.) I'm a bit unclear about this 'endless cycle' business...
Batman got hit by the Omega Sanction in Final Crisis, which was a concept that Grant Morrison introduced in his Seven Soldiers: Mr. Miracle miniseries. Basically, when Darkseid uses it on you, you are placed in an endless cycle of death and rebirth, with each new life being shittier than the previous one. It's possible to escape from this; Shiloh Norman did, since he's Mr. Miracle, escaping from stuff is his specialty.
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Old August 20 2009, 03:26 AM   #26
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
So what exactly is happening to Bruce right now? (I've been out of touch for awhile.) I'm a bit unclear about this 'endless cycle' business...
Batman got hit by the Omega Sanction in Final Crisis, which was a concept that Grant Morrison introduced in his Seven Soldiers: Mr. Miracle miniseries. Basically, when Darkseid uses it on you, you are placed in an endless cycle of death and rebirth, with each new life being shittier than the previous one. It's possible to escape from this; Shiloh Norman did, since he's Mr. Miracle, escaping from stuff is his specialty.
I see. So is what is happening to Batman "really" happening (i.e. are these alternate lives he's living, actually real) or is he only imagining it?
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Old August 20 2009, 03:41 AM   #27
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Batman got hit by the Omega Sanction in Final Crisis, which was a concept that Grant Morrison introduced in his Seven Soldiers: Mr. Miracle miniseries. Basically, when Darkseid uses it on you, you are placed in an endless cycle of death and rebirth, with each new life being shittier than the previous one. It's possible to escape from this; Shiloh Norman did, since he's Mr. Miracle, escaping from stuff is his specialty.
How awesome would a Mr. Miracle/Batman story written by Morrison be? Both are accomplished escape artists, and if Shilo Norman could escape the Omega Sanction, then Bruce should be able to as well.
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Old August 20 2009, 08:22 AM   #28
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Bruce should be able to escape the Omega Sanction...if he realizes that he's trapped in it in the first place I assume part of the problem is figuring out that you're in it.
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Old August 20 2009, 11:05 AM   #29
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

^
True.

Wouldn't it be true to character if Bruce just accepted how crappy his life is, even as it gets worse and worse!
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Old August 20 2009, 12:31 PM   #30
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Re: The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Has there been much of a backlash about Dick taking up the mantle of Batman again?
I haven't seen any backlash, to be honest.

Some of that could be situational. There wasn't a backlash against Dick at the time of Prodigal, per se, but there was the sense of, "A new Batman? Again?" We'd just had Bruce broken, Jean-Paul in his new costume, Jean-Paul's descent into madness, Bruce coming back, and suddenly Dick is shoved into the costume. Plus, we knew at the time that Bruce was, eventually, coming back; not just because he was alive and well, but because Jean-Paul had been a short-term Batman.

I realize, in retrospect, that Jean-Paul was never meant to be a permanent Batman, but that wasn't the way it was pitched to the audience. Reading Knightfall and KnightQuest at the time, it also felt like the writers were going out of their way to sabotage Jean-Paul. (Denny O'Neil says that was deliberate; readers weren't supposed to like Jean-Paul as Batman. The problem, of course, is that we had a good eight or nine months of three books starring a character we're supposed to hate, which makes for a genuinely unpleasant reading experience.) After that experience, any backlash against Dick as Batman was to be expected; the well had already been poisoned, and the poisoning was still too recent.

Now, it's a lot different. Bruce is, from all appearances, out of the picture entirely. (What Tim believes in Red Robin is the only crack in that facade, and even then, Tim's belief doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.) DC is making a real investment in Dick-as-Batman, with two new series launches (though I think of Streets of Gotham as a continuation of Dini/Nguyen's Detective, just under a different name), plus adding Dick to the new Justice League line-up. There seems to be a real weight behind the idea that this new status quo is going to last.

Will it last? Yes, I have no doubt that Bruce Wayne will be back. And he may even suit up in the cape and cowl from time to time. But unless Dick creates a fourth identity for himself (after Robin, then Nightwing, and finally Batman) or Dick is killed or maimed, I think it's unlikely that Dick will cease to be the Caped Crusader. Given that this is all part of Morrison's masterplan, and given Morrison's penchant for drawing on obscure Silver Age continuity, I could see Morrison cementing the legacy idea that was floated in Silver Age Batman stories in the present day. It's strange that in an era were Geoff Johns has scrapped the legacy nature of The Flash and Green Lantern by restoring the Silver Age, that Morrison could restore the legacy nature of Batman by, likewise, mining the Silver Age.
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