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Old August 13 2009, 01:31 PM   #151
ncc-1017-e
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

I love both of these redos! They both are just outstanding!
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Old August 15 2009, 04:28 PM   #152
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post



That's me in my driveway showing off my new ride I picked up at the used starship lot. Or it's a little experiment I did in 3D photo compositing. Whichever you prefer to believe.
It's the model you just bought for 3/4 million bucks at the Christie's auction.
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Old August 17 2009, 06:19 PM   #153
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Added some grid lines and panel details to the edge of the saucer.




This isn't necessarily final. I'm still figuring out how I want those grid lines to wrap around the saucer's edge, interact with the windows, etc. This is just one option out of at least three I am considering.

Thoughts?
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Old August 17 2009, 06:38 PM   #154
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

What I never really liked about the TOS Enterprise is the neck. It's just... there, without any details, with no transition from saucer to neck, or from neck to secondary hull. I dunno. The TMP Enterprise fixed that somehow by including the torpedo tubes at the bottom of the neck.
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Old August 17 2009, 06:42 PM   #155
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Those grid-lines look very good and they are subtle enough that they don't disturb the smoothness of the hull.
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Old August 17 2009, 07:40 PM   #156
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
Thoughts?
MY thoughts are that this bird is nearly perfect in every way.

But, since you are making some adjustments...

I am not "convinced" by the nacelle root fillet/fairings:

It seems to me that they are too "nice" looking. That strongback is supporting a tremendous amount of mass, and what I like about Probert's refit is that the strongback looks like the skin is made of a different material, or that there are structural supports just under the surface and lightly skinned on top. I think your would look more "real" if there were more of a suggestion of that.
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Old August 17 2009, 07:45 PM   #157
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

But they would have to be subtle, oh-so-subtle to work.
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Old August 17 2009, 07:47 PM   #158
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

erifah wrote: View Post
That strongback is supporting a tremendous amount of mass,...
Mass in zero-G. And with an integrity field to boot.

Nice work on the lines, V.

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Old August 17 2009, 08:45 PM   #159
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

I like the course you're taking with your big E, can't wait to see her finished.
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Old August 17 2009, 11:20 PM   #160
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

ST-One wrote: View Post
Those grid-lines look very good and they are subtle enough that they don't disturb the smoothness of the hull.
Agreed... that's the sort of thing I always talk about when I've talked about the original ship needing "polish" rather than "redesign." Detail that, if the ship was slightly out-of-focus, wouldn't be distinguishable from the original TV presentation. So we can see what we're seeing now as "how it really looked, but clearer than we were able to see it before."
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Old August 17 2009, 11:46 PM   #161
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

If I understand this thread correctly, both Deg3D and Vektor were offering alternative visions of what the Starship Enterprise could have looked like for the new movie. Setting aside the obvious deviations from long-established continuity that the new movie represents, the basic story seems to take place before the time of TOS. Thus, it would be a kind of pseudo-pre-TOS prequel.

If you had a say in the making of the new movie, character-based continuity aside, what would you like to see a pre-TOS Enterprise look like?

I have to say that I really like the softly glowing navi-deflector dish on Vektor's ship. If I could call the shots on a pre-TOS prequel, I'd take Vektor's ship and make it even more like what we saw in "Where No Man Has Gone Before". (the famous "anthill" bridge dome, the "cheese grater" aft nacelle caps, and maybe a bigger dish, and eight smaller impulse engines, to name a few.)
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Old August 18 2009, 12:54 AM   #162
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
Added some grid lines and panel details to the edge of the saucer.




This isn't necessarily final. I'm still figuring out how I want those grid lines to wrap around the saucer's edge, interact with the windows, etc. This is just one option out of at least three I am considering.

Thoughts?
Vektor, as always, your visual work is fantastic. But I'm a big fan of the visual details also holding a function. Your details around the sides of the saucer are subtle and well done, but don't look like they have a practical function for the ship. They just look like they are there to provide hull detail, and I'm not sure it needs it. Do the lines/plating have a function?
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Old August 18 2009, 02:29 AM   #163
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

I'm not so sure, AudioBridge. Have a look at this photo I shot while visiting the U.S.S. Wisconsin a couple weeks ago.



Not only is it generally accepted (but by no means canon) that the grids are deflector shield or force field emitters, but you'll note that a real vessel has a grid pattern visible, although in this case, you're looking at the outer plating and the structural ribbing (transverse and longitudinal frames) over which outer plating is applied.

I'd also like to bring this to Deg's and Vektor's attention because if you click on the picture and examine the larger version, the dimpling of plates against the framework is quite visible, especially in the foreground. It's as if, against the forces of nature (heat, cold, and gravity), the armored, metal skin of this titan still isn't thick enough to resist revealing the ship's skeleton. Combined with Cary's efforts to introduce a framework under the outer shape in his exercise, perhaps it might be possible devise a subtle texture that hints at this very same effect on a starship hull.

A common complaint leveled against using the original Enterprise in a modern feature is that the skin is too smooth to look realistic. While I'm sure futuristic manufacturing techniques might well be able to fabricate surfaces that would make the smooth finish on the original 1701 look more like Valles Marinaris by comparison, contemporary eyes do expect to see more than acres of featureless metal. Perhaps with the right approach to suggesting a structure that lurks beneath the skin, the visual appeal of "hobbiest" efforts could leapfrog over results currently projected on movie screens as "professional".
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Old August 18 2009, 02:54 AM   #164
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Contemporary Sci Fi shows, including every TREK feature film ever made, have all been heavily (and, in my opinion, inordinately) influenced by the hyper-detailing seen in STAR WARS. That movie cast an extremely long shadow. Hollywood doesn't seem to have the desire (or maybe the creativity) to stop pushing that Imperial Star Destroyer button, over and over again.

Even the "refit" TMP Enterprise seemed to be a victim of this STAR WARS fashion trend. Thankfully, the refit Enterprise wasn't as bad a it could've been. In my opinion, it's still the best post-TOS ship. The original E is still head-and-shoulders better than all the rest, though.
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Old August 18 2009, 04:24 AM   #165
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Psion wrote: View Post
... While I'm sure futuristic manufacturing techniques might well be able to fabricate surfaces that would make the smooth finish on the original 1701 look more like Valles Marinaris by comparison, contemporary eyes do expect to see more than acres of featureless metal...
I think that hits it right on the button. A surface that looks too perfect does not look real. The most subtle dimpling, whether like that on that battleship picture, or the skin of a MD-11 jetliner at the middle engine, are imperfections that suggest reality.

In the 2-D work I do (because I am mortal, not a 3-D god like Vector and deg3D - GAWD I love their work!) I like to work back in some awkwardness, that suggests real-life manufacturing limitations and compromises. Maybe my nacelle struts should be thinner and more graceful, but "I needed to make enough room for conduits" or something like that.
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