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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old August 5 2009, 05:37 PM   #271
iguana_tonante
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Re: The Typhon Pact

SpaceLama wrote: View Post
Certain aspects of the Typhon Pact, seem to resemble the European Union more - including shared government and single currency.
Then Italy goes to play the part of the Tzenkethi, being loudmouthed but hardly effective.
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Old August 5 2009, 07:58 PM   #272
Sci
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Re: The Typhon Pact

JB2005 wrote: View Post
rahullak wrote: View Post
But Bacco does not know of a certain paranoid organization...
I think she does...or at least suspects...


There is, in short, literally no indication at all that President Bacco has ever heard of them.
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Old August 5 2009, 08:38 PM   #273
JB2005
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Sci wrote: View Post
JB2005 wrote: View Post
rahullak wrote: View Post
But Bacco does not know of a certain paranoid organization...
I think she does...or at least suspects...


There is, in short, literally no indication at all that President Bacco has ever heard of them.
Hence think rather than know for a fact.

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Old August 5 2009, 09:12 PM   #274
rahullak
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Re: The Typhon Pact

^
Speculative conjecture.
Based on what we know from the books published so far, Bacco has no idea about Section 31.
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Old August 5 2009, 09:16 PM   #275
JB2005
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Re: The Typhon Pact

^ Yeah, which is why i said think not know

And we know that S31 fell some time before the 25th Century (Leaving 18 or so years to do it)

We know Ross considered Bacco a person who would be most likely able to deal with them.

We know most of the "heroes" are aware of S31...

It's reasonable conjecture, plus I'm sure KRAD made a comment somewhere about the ambiguity of whether Bacco knew about S31 and he wrote AoTF...
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Old August 5 2009, 09:51 PM   #276
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Re: The Typhon Pact

With the rogues gallery of moustache-twirling baddies like the Romulans,Gorn and the Tzenkethi,I would have likened the Typhon pact to Trek's very own "Axis of evil".(gulp!)And we all know where that might lead to...goldshirts on the Gorn homeworld searching for WMD'S.
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Old August 5 2009, 10:14 PM   #277
SpaceLama
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Re: The Typhon Pact

I think the Tholians, Breen, Romulans, etc, are a little more powerful than some small, technologically backward, economically impoverished, dictatorship.
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Old August 5 2009, 10:15 PM   #278
JB2005
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Re: The Typhon Pact

^ So they might actually have wmd?

I don't think that was ever in the mission profile...
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Old August 5 2009, 10:18 PM   #279
rahullak
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Re: The Typhon Pact

We already know the Romulans (through the Remans) have the knowhow and possibly some more prototypes of Thelaron weapons. The others we don't know.
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Old August 5 2009, 10:22 PM   #280
JB2005
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Yeah, but the Khitomer Alliance has Transphasic Torpedoes...
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Old August 5 2009, 10:23 PM   #281
flandry84
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Re: The Typhon Pact

SPACELAMA
/\Not exactly my point...
It will be interesting to see the Federation deal with this new political entity.A political problem as opposed to a military one.Please treat the wmd comment as the snide quip that it was.


As for the other,sometimes a superpower will find that kind of opposition the most difficult to defeat.
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Old August 5 2009, 11:09 PM   #282
Braxton
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Re: The Typhon Pact

SpaceLama wrote: View Post
Braxton wrote: View Post
Regardless of how peaceful our world is today, Star Trek has always drawn on comparisons from the real world for its stories. That's a fact. It seems this may be a direct parallel to the Federation being the United States and the Typhon Pact being China, the current superpower being faced with the rise of a new superpower.
Certain aspects of the Typhon Pact, seem to resemble the European Union more - including shared government and single currency.

This is not a simple USA and China metaphor - the Typhon Pact does not resemble the single-state economic partner that China is to the USA (TNG arguably used the Romulans for that, at least to some extent, although they took on aspects of North Korea, Soviet Russia, etc, too) - neither does it seem to be a Warsaw Pact - with a giant Russia using the others as satellites.

If anything, the Typhon Pact resembles a kinda 'dark' EU - no EU member states have had recent major hostilities with the USA, and most are economic partners with the USA - but states in the Typhon Pact like the Tholians have had recent conflicts, and seem to be pretty economically independent of the UFP.
The EU was one of my first thoughts but it never crossed my mind to consider the TP as a 'dark' EU, mainly because there are not really any tensions between the US and the EU but there are with China but that's not the point of this thread. Perhaps they formed this new government because they didn't want to deal with a money-less society? Waiting for these books is going to be painful.
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Old August 5 2009, 11:17 PM   #283
St. William Of Levittown
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Re: The Typhon Pact

'Pax Britannica' mearly refers to peaceful trading conditions, such as absense of piracy, not a lack of suffering amongst the common folk of the world.
Mass suffering has occured throughout history, folks--as have conflicts. When you compare all the risks of massive full-scale war breaking out today with all the risks then...you get my earlier point.

And Sci...is "you would be erroneous" grammatically correct? Because I would think "your information is erroneous" would be more appropriate.

Just sayin'....


As for Bacco and Section 31...I'd think Nan would surely suspect something by now. I wonder exactly what was going through her mind as she learned that Ross was going to resign.

I'd put my money on "Now that was a little suspicious...does Ross honestly expect me to believe that someone with his record of loyalty and integrity would assasinate a president? There's more to this than meets the eye...I'm sure of it...."
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Old August 5 2009, 11:24 PM   #284
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
'Pax Britannica' mearly refers to peaceful trading conditions, such as absense of piracy, not a lack of suffering amongst the common folk of the world.
Mass suffering has occured throughout history, folks--as have conflicts. When you compare all the risks of massive full-scale war breaking out today with all the risks then...you get my earlier point.
You did not say anything about the risks of a potential nuclear or other WMD war. You simply claimed that the Victorian era was more peaceful than the present era. I and others have only shown that the Victorian era had more violent conflicts and human rights abuses than the modern era has tended to have.

That shouldn't be taken as a claim that the present day is without horrific abuses and conflicts, either. It's simply a statement that things are better today than they were then.

As for Bacco and Section 31...I'd think Nan would surely suspect something by now. I wonder exactly what was going through her mind as she learned that Ross was going to resign.
1. Ross didn't resign, he retired.

2. He retired because she told him he was going to.

There has yet been no evidence established to indicate that President Bacco suspects the existence of Section 31. Doesn't mean she doesn't -- but there's nothing establishing that yet.

I'd put my money on "Now that was a little suspicious...does Ross honestly expect me to believe that someone with his record of loyalty and integrity would assasinate a president? There's more to this than meets the eye...I'm sure of it...."
It's possible -- but, there again, I think something to bear in mind about the Bacco/Ross relationship is that Bacco has never trusted Ross or respected him all that much. If you look at War/Peace and Articles, they're full of scenes between Ross and Bacco told from Bacco's POV that have all these little negative observations and expressions of annoyance or distrust. Bacco doesn't hold Ross in the kind of esteem that we in the audience do.
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Old August 5 2009, 11:35 PM   #285
SpaceLama
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Braxton wrote: View Post
SpaceLama wrote: View Post
Braxton wrote: View Post
Regardless of how peaceful our world is today, Star Trek has always drawn on comparisons from the real world for its stories. That's a fact. It seems this may be a direct parallel to the Federation being the United States and the Typhon Pact being China, the current superpower being faced with the rise of a new superpower.
Certain aspects of the Typhon Pact, seem to resemble the European Union more - including shared government and single currency.

This is not a simple USA and China metaphor - the Typhon Pact does not resemble the single-state economic partner that China is to the USA (TNG arguably used the Romulans for that, at least to some extent, although they took on aspects of North Korea, Soviet Russia, etc, too) - neither does it seem to be a Warsaw Pact - with a giant Russia using the others as satellites.

If anything, the Typhon Pact resembles a kinda 'dark' EU - no EU member states have had recent major hostilities with the USA, and most are economic partners with the USA - but states in the Typhon Pact like the Tholians have had recent conflicts, and seem to be pretty economically independent of the UFP.
The EU was one of my first thoughts but it never crossed my mind to consider the TP as a 'dark' EU, mainly because there are not really any tensions between the US and the EU but there are with China but that's not the point of this thread. Perhaps they formed this new government because they didn't want to deal with a money-less society? Waiting for these books is going to be painful.
Nobody really understands how the Federation's economy operates - there are conflicting quotes in Star Trek. I think the Federation economy is largely a post-scarcity society, but that luxuary items above and beyond the basic developmental needs of the people, are still traded for. If thats the case, I cannot really see how the Typhon Pact would be much different.

Perhaps the post-scarcity nature of these interstellar economies is what allows them to go off on isolationist policies - in our own time, China could hardly de-couple itself from the US economy, without causing a huge impact - but in the 24th century, the Federation may only gain things like Tholian silk from the Tholians.
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