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 The Trek BBS Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"
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August 5 2009, 12:35 PM   #31
All Seeing Eye
Admiral

Location: The Astral Light Realms
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

I'll post in thread since the thread is now over.

This puzzle makes no sense for the following reason:

 Jadzia wrote: but the yellow shapes are never square
Ok so a yellow must be either circle or triangle because they are never square.

 Jadzia wrote: neither triangles nor circles are rough.
So a yellow object cannot be rough because a yellow object can only be a circle or triangle.

 Jadzia wrote: While with rough shapes, if they're not circles, they must at least be yellow.
Only squares can be rough, therefore they're not circles and therefore from what you say must be yellow.
But you've said (in the top quote of this post) that yellow shapes are never square.

So this makes no sense at all. It contradicts itself.

How anyone got the answer is beyond me.

 August 5 2009, 01:24 PM #32 kathryn i am Rear Admiral     Location: escaping from the bunch Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" I don't think the thread has quite run its course yet, Tachyon Shield... the answer is normally given on Friday. __________________ have you peeled a banana today?
August 5 2009, 01:33 PM   #33
Jadzia
on holiday

Location: England
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

 Tachyon Shield wrote: I'll post in thread since the thread is now over.
Not until friday.

 So this makes no sense at all. It contradicts itself.
Your reasoning is unsound.
__________________
.

 August 5 2009, 02:15 PM #34 All Seeing Eye Admiral   Location: The Astral Light Realms Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" oh sorry I thought thread was over. I saw the last post said "such and such is correct" so I thought the winner had been named. Sorry. It still don't make sense though.
August 5 2009, 02:21 PM   #35
Zulu Romeo
World Famous Starship Captain

Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

 Tachyon Shield wrote: oh sorry I thought thread was over. I saw the last post said "such and such is correct" so I thought the winner had been named. Sorry. It still don't make sense though.
That's the great thing about this contest. There's a winner, but the contest goes on until the last one is dead.
__________________
"In Germany, fear comes before sex... and if you're lucky, then a little bit later, an elf." -- Victoria Coren Mitchell

August 5 2009, 02:51 PM   #36
Jadzia
on holiday

Location: England
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

 Tachyon Shield wrote: oh sorry I thought thread was over. I saw the last post said "such and such is correct" so I thought the winner had been named. Sorry. It still don't make sense though.
Okay, well I might as well give some general help with the puzzle.

Contradiction is a valid tool in reasoning, and arguably the most important. When you chain several logical statements together, it is common to create contradictions with values of some the variables, and that says something important about those variables -- specifically values which cannot appear in any solution.

So for example, if one statement said "blue objects are always hexagons" and another said "hexagons can never be blue", then you can deduce that "blue objects cannot be blue".

This is not a contradiction of the "colour" variable, but is a contradiction of a specific value of the colour variable. This simply means that the colour variable cannot take the value of "blue" in any solution to the problem.

If there are no blue objects, then rules about blue objects are arbitrary and become irrelevant.
__________________
.

Last edited by Jadzia; August 5 2009 at 03:03 PM.

August 5 2009, 03:00 PM   #37
trampledamage
Clone

Location: hitching a ride to Erebor
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

Jadzia wrote:
 Tachyon Shield wrote: oh sorry I thought thread was over. I saw the last post said "such and such is correct" so I thought the winner had been named. Sorry. It still don't make sense though.
Okay, well I might as well give some general help with the puzzle.

Contradiction is a valid tool in reasoning, and arguably the most important. When you chain several logical statements together, it is common to create contradictions with values of some the variables, and that says something important about those variables -- specifically values which cannot appear in the solution.

So for example, if one statement said "blue objects are always hexagons" and another said "hexagons can never be blue", then you can deduce that "blue objects cannot be blue".

This is not a contradiction of the "colour" variable, but is a contradiction of a specific value of the colour variable. This simply means that the colour variable cannot take the value of "blue" in any solution to the problem.
It's the various contradictions that make it possible to solve
__________________
Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence - Dr. McCoy

And he says that like it's a bad thing...

 August 5 2009, 03:14 PM #38 All Seeing Eye Admiral   Location: The Astral Light Realms Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" Well i'm beat, my head hurts with it so I give in.
August 5 2009, 05:12 PM   #39
kathryn i am
Rear Admiral

Location: escaping from the bunch
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

 Jadzia wrote: If there are no blue objects, then rules about blue objects are arbitrary and become irrelevant.
This is a very big clue

__________________
have you peeled a banana today?

 August 5 2009, 05:30 PM #40 NickInABox Captain     Location: The not-so-Great-anymore White North Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" ::Tents fingers:: I like the direction the ____ Quiz is going. __________________ Goodbye, goodbye I'm going to leave you now, and here's the reason why: I sleep with the window open, you like to keep it closed So goodbye, goodbye, goodbye
August 5 2009, 05:36 PM   #41
Zulu Romeo
World Famous Starship Captain

Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

 NickInABox wrote: ::Tents fingers:: I like the direction the ____ Quiz is going.
Consider it a reboot. Starring Karl Urban as Zion Ravescene.
__________________
"In Germany, fear comes before sex... and if you're lucky, then a little bit later, an elf." -- Victoria Coren Mitchell

August 5 2009, 06:33 PM   #42
trampledamage
Clone

Location: hitching a ride to Erebor
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

Zion Ravescene wrote:
 NickInABox wrote: ::Tents fingers:: I like the direction the ____ Quiz is going.
Consider it a reboot. Starring Karl Urban as Zion Ravescene.
I'd watch it! Any chance of casting photos
__________________
Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence - Dr. McCoy

And he says that like it's a bad thing...

August 5 2009, 06:34 PM   #43
Zulu Romeo
World Famous Starship Captain

Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

trampledamage wrote:
Zion Ravescene wrote:
 NickInABox wrote: ::Tents fingers:: I like the direction the ____ Quiz is going.
Consider it a reboot. Starring Karl Urban as Zion Ravescene.
I'd watch it! Any chance of casting photos
Ask Crusher Disciple.
__________________
"In Germany, fear comes before sex... and if you're lucky, then a little bit later, an elf." -- Victoria Coren Mitchell

 August 5 2009, 07:59 PM #44 Jadzia on holiday   Location: England Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning" Another correct answer from Spot's Meow. edit + 30 minutes : Also Ood Sigma __________________ . Last edited by Jadzia; August 5 2009 at 08:38 PM.
August 5 2009, 08:00 PM   #45
All Seeing Eye
Admiral

Location: The Astral Light Realms
Re: Monday Puzzle #3: "Circular Reasoning"

 Jadzia wrote: Another correct answer from Spot's Meow.
I feel.......................................... retarded.

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