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Old August 4 2009, 08:53 PM   #256
flandry84
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Re: The Typhon Pact

I find it interesting that despite the Federations' oft-expressed desire for inter-galactic peace and cooperation,almost everyone is wondering just when this new political alliance(the Typhon pact) will open hostilities.

Perhaps the almost constant state of siege/war that has prevailed in Trek,both onscreen and in Treklit,has led to a certain mindset.
Those of a more psycho-sociological mind might say that this is reflective of our present day reality.
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Old August 4 2009, 08:55 PM   #257
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Re: The Typhon Pact

flandry84 wrote: View Post
I find it interesting that despite the Federations' oft-expressed desire for inter-galactic peace and cooperation,almost everyone is wondering just when this new political alliance(the Typhon pact) will open hostilities.

Perhaps the almost constant state of siege/war that has prevailed in Trek,both onscreen and in Treklit,has led to a certain mindset.
Those of a more psycho-sociological mind might say that this is reflective of our present day reality.
Indeed. I'm half-wondering if the Federation, acting out of fear and xenophobia, might not itself provoke the very conflict it so fears.
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Old August 4 2009, 08:57 PM   #258
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Re: The Typhon Pact

flandry84 wrote: View Post
Those of a more psycho-sociological mind might say that this is reflective of our present day reality.
I must say, I personally don't see how our present reality is more violent or features more combat/destruction than earlier times.

Anyway, I'm certainly not expecting an armed conflict. Both the UFP and the Typhon Pact are about peaceful co-operation. Their rivalry may become intense, but it won't be another war story- the authors have as a good as promised us that.
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Old August 4 2009, 09:06 PM   #259
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Re: The Typhon Pact

^
Agreed on both counts.

I see our present day reality as being more peaceful for most people compared to any other time pre-20th century. Our media and news reporting has gotten so good that even the smallest atrocity gets a lot of attention.

As for the Pact and UFP, I'd like to see "battles" on economic and political fronts (not armed conflict). There was never an equal to the UFP on these fronts until now.
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Old August 4 2009, 09:42 PM   #260
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Re: The Typhon Pact

/\Guys,without starting a whole other discussion and all the grief that goes with it..
Huge chunks of the world we live in are not at peace and people wearing very recognisable uniforms are in the thick of it.Please let it rest at that.
My observation was simply that Trek has the ability to capture the zeitgeist of it's time.

As mentioned above,perhaps it's the Federations own paranoia that will precipitate a further disaster.
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Old August 4 2009, 11:15 PM   #261
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Re: The Typhon Pact

^Not with our gal Bacco at the helm. She's nothing if not a cool head....
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Old August 5 2009, 12:39 AM   #262
rahullak
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Re: The Typhon Pact

But Bacco does not know of a certain paranoid organization...
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Old August 5 2009, 12:45 AM   #263
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Re: The Typhon Pact

flandry84 wrote: View Post
/\Guys,without starting a whole other discussion and all the grief that goes with it..
Huge chunks of the world we live in are not at peace and people wearing very recognisable uniforms are in the thick of it.
No one is arguing that. The question is whether those chunks are larger today than they were in the past. Fareed Zakaria has made a strong argument in The Post-American World that the world may be significantly more peaceful today than at any point in human history.
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Old August 5 2009, 02:08 AM   #264
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Re: The Typhon Pact

I dunno...I'd say the Victorian Era was pretty peaceful....
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Old August 5 2009, 02:29 AM   #265
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Regardless of how peaceful our world is today, Star Trek has always drawn on comparisons from the real world for its stories. That's a fact. It seems this may be a direct parallel to the Federation being the United States and the Typhon Pact being China, the current superpower being faced with the rise of a new superpower.

Anyway, the Typhon Pact is more likely going to be a cold war scenario with 'proxy wars' (using this very loosely) to see who gets the upperhand. Since most of the races in the Pact are or have been hostile towards the Federation, it seems to me that the Pact was organized because the Federation hasn't been the 'glory and honorable' power it portrayed itself to be and the Federation helped these races see that they are better together than apart (who better to teach than the very power that knows the benefits of working together?). Maybe they felt the Federation would try to 'sucker them in' and getting them all to commit their forces to fight the Borg was just the start of being "assimilated without even knowing it", as Eddington so kindly put it.
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Old August 5 2009, 02:32 AM   #266
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I dunno...I'd say the Victorian Era was pretty peaceful....
You would be erroneous. The Victorian era and the years immediately before and following were marked by such human rights abuses as the British Raj; the horrific abuses of King Leopold of Belgium in the Congo Free State; famines caused by British economic policies in territories they had conquered; the wars of conquest, forced relocation, and extermination waged against Native Americans by the U.S. government; the extermination of the Tasmanian aboriginal people; the conquest, occupation, and mass murders of the inhabitants of the Phillipines by the United States; the genocide of the Herero and Namaqua peoples by the German Empire; the conquest of the Caucasus by the Russian Empire; the exploitation of child labor and the poor; and the violent wars of Italian and German unification.

The so-called Pax Britannica was nothing of the sort.
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Old August 5 2009, 04:00 AM   #267
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Not to mention there was far less independent coverage of these events back then compared to now.
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Old August 5 2009, 02:31 PM   #268
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I dunno...I'd say the Victorian Era was pretty peaceful....
Huh?

Britain was at war, every single year under Queen Victoria... The amazingly bloody Indian Revolt of 1857 took place, as did the Crimean War, Opium Wars, Anglo-Zanzibar War, Taiping Rebellion, Boxer Rebellion, Boer War, Anglo-Afghan Wars, Anglo-Sikh Wars, and numerous imperalistic acquisitions. 'Pax Britannica' mearly refers to peaceful trading conditions, such as absense of piracy, not a lack of suffering amongst the common folk of the world.
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Old August 5 2009, 02:39 PM   #269
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Braxton wrote: View Post
Regardless of how peaceful our world is today, Star Trek has always drawn on comparisons from the real world for its stories. That's a fact. It seems this may be a direct parallel to the Federation being the United States and the Typhon Pact being China, the current superpower being faced with the rise of a new superpower.
Certain aspects of the Typhon Pact, seem to resemble the European Union more - including shared government and single currency.

This is not a simple USA and China metaphor - the Typhon Pact does not resemble the single-state economic partner that China is to the USA (TNG arguably used the Romulans for that, at least to some extent, although they took on aspects of North Korea, Soviet Russia, etc, too) - neither does it seem to be a Warsaw Pact - with a giant Russia using the others as satellites.

If anything, the Typhon Pact resembles a kinda 'dark' EU - no EU member states have had recent major hostilities with the USA, and most are economic partners with the USA - but states in the Typhon Pact like the Tholians have had recent conflicts, and seem to be pretty economically independent of the UFP.
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Old August 5 2009, 05:25 PM   #270
JB2005
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Re: The Typhon Pact

rahullak wrote: View Post
But Bacco does not know of a certain paranoid organization...
I think she does...or at least suspects...
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