Superman and Batman to join forces with Islamic superheroes

[Thrall]

USS Mariner wrote:

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This is incredibly racist, but hilarious.

If thousands of Polish jokes proved anything, it's that racism is funny.

[Sci]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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I wonder who twisted what arms to get this done...

This is hardly something new. There have been Islamic/Arab characters in comics before.

This just smacks of PC PR.

There have been Islamic and Arab characters in American comics before. What makes this unique is that it's American comic book characters crossing over with foreign comic book characters.

[firehawk12]

I think this is a cool idea. It'd actually get me to read a "mainline" DC book again anyway.

[Nerys Myk]

[

QUOTE=darkwing_duck1;3252707]

Most recently with Magdalena, whose entire origin turned out to be a lie by the Catholic Church. The old Image stable had loads of "Christian" groups and characters of dubious fidelity to Christian standards.

I've no idea who or what "Magdalena" is. If it's from Image I most likely ignored it. That company set comics back a decade.

For a larger list of "Christian" villains, go here:

http://www.comicbookreligion.com/?start=600&IsVillain=1

start with records 601-650 and go from there.

I've seen such list before. They tend to rely on guess work. "He's Italian? he must be Catholic" type logic.

Not what we're talking about...we're talking about re-engineering EXISTING characters, not replacements with the same name.

All those characters are "re-engineered". The Silver Age was all bout "re-engineering." Any character created before 1986 probably was "re-engineered" when it came to religion, because such thing wer not part of the characters in the 40s, 50s or even the 60s. Dave Cockrum and Len Wein had no idea Nightcrawler was a Catholic. The idea that Magneto was a Jew never crossed Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's minds.

[Mr. Adventure]

Dusty Ayres wrote:

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I bet this is the most popular character.

[darkwing_duck1]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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I've no idea who or what "Magdalena" is. If it's from Image I most likely ignored it. That company set comics back a decade.

Top Cow, actually, and one of their more popular second-string characters.

I've seen such list before. They tend to rely on guess work. "He's Italian? he must be Catholic" type logic.

Each character has an article that explains the documentation.

All those characters are "re-engineered". The Silver Age was all bout "re-engineering." Any character created before 1986 probably was "re-engineered" when it came to religion, because such thing wer not part of the characters in the 40s, 50s or even the 60s. Dave Cockrum and Len Wein had no idea Nightcrawler was a Catholic. The idea that Magneto was a Jew never crossed Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's minds.

We aren't talking about re-jiggering details about the planet Krypton, or minutiae like that. We are talking about fundamental aspects of the identity of the character.

[Nerys Myk]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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Top Cow, actually, and one of their more popular second-string characters.

I'll take your word for it. Top Cop to me it just Image lite.

Each character has an article that explains the documentation.

Referencing stories that "re-engineered" their religious affiliation for the most part, by people who did not create the characters. Though how many of these characters were motivated by their Christianity? Or is it just a bit of window dressing to add the illusion of depth?

All those characters are "re-engineered". The Silver Age was all bout "re-engineering." Any character created before 1986 probably was "re-engineered" when it came to religion, because such thing wer not part of the characters in the 40s, 50s or even the 60s. Dave Cockrum and Len Wein had no idea Nightcrawler was a Catholic. The idea that Magneto was a Jew never crossed Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's minds.

We aren't talking about re-jiggering details about the planet Krypton, or minutiae like that. We are talking about fundamental aspects of the identity of the character.

I dunno, making Kurt Wagner a Catholic sounds pretty major. Making him a priest even more so. Magneto's affection for neo Nazi uniforms and extreme views on "race" makes him an odd candidate for Holocaust survivor.

Now making Bruce Wayne gay might be a stretch (the whole playboy thing) but it would not change who Batman is. He would not be any less a detective or martial artist if this happened.

Out of curiousity how many comicbook characters have had their race or sexuality "re-engineered"?

[theenglish]

Most characters that were re-done drastically were just replaced by new generations of the same hero. Hal Jordan and Kyle Rainer replacing Alan Scot for example, or the new Firestorm, Atom, and Blue Beetle come to mind.

Now, I havent read these 99 characters but the producer of the comic books says in the interview that he makes a specific point of not referencing religion specifically in the stories. These characters simply come from a different point of view than the traditional Judeo-Christian creations of North America from his point of view.

I am, however, genuinely concerned about the blatant ignorance of the Middle East coming from some posters on this board. Islam has as rich a cultural history and a myriad of interpretations and followers as Christianity does. Saying every Muslim is out to attack Western culture is like saying every Christian is a homophobe, a Nazi, or a member of the KKK.

[CaptainCanada]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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I wonder who twisted what arms to get this done...

This is hardly something new. There have been Islamic/Arab characters in comics before.

This just smacks of PC PR.

Simple capitalism: they want access to each others' markets.

[darkwing_duck1]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Referencing stories that "re-engineered" their religious affiliation for the most part, by people who did not create the characters. Though how many of these characters were motivated by their Christianity? Or is it just a bit of window dressing to add the illusion of depth?

Adding to a character is different from re-engineering established traits.

I dunno, making Kurt Wagner a Catholic sounds pretty major. Making him a priest even more so.

It was never established he was NOT a Catholic, so that is a different matter.

Magneto's affection for neo Nazi uniforms and extreme views on "race" makes him an odd candidate for Holocaust survivor.

Likewise with Magneto. It was never established that he WASN'T a Jew, then reversed. It was added on by later writers. And personally, his Mutant Facisim makes a LOT of sense for a Holocaust survivor. It's the ultimate, tragic extension of "Never Again", and took what was a standard-issue ranting villain and made him interesting.

Now making Bruce Wayne gay might be a stretch (the whole playboy thing) but it would not change who Batman is. He would not be any less a detective or martial artist if this happened.

But it would change who Bruce Wayne is. That's the point.

Out of curiousity how many comicbook characters have had their race or sexuality "re-engineered"?

So far, the only one that has "taken" is Nick Fury, and that pretty much on the basis of Samuel L Jackson's "Chuck Norris factor". What Galactus and his supporters want to see is MORE arbitrary changes like that, which I do not support.

[Nerys Myk]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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Adding to a character is different from re-engineering established traits.

Potayto Potahto. Religion, sexuality, ethnic background its all the same really.

It was never established he was NOT a Catholic, so that is a different matter.

Doesn't quite fit with the character as first presented.

Likewise with Magneto. It was never established that he WASN'T a Jew, then reversed. It was added on by later writers. And personally, his Mutant Facisim makes a LOT of sense for a Holocaust survivor. It's the ultimate, tragic extension of "Never Again", and took what was a standard-issue ranting villain and made him interesting.

Doesnt make sense to me. "Hitler made me act like Hitler." It made him inro Dr Doom-lite. (IIRC it was because Claremont couldn't use Doom)

But it would change who Bruce Wayne is. That's the point.

Hmm. I think I already said that.

So far, the only one that has "taken" is Nick Fury, and that pretty much on the basis of Samuel L Jackson's "Chuck Norris factor". What Galactus and his supporters want to see is MORE arbitrary changes like that, which I do not support.

Last time I checked Nick Fury in the Marvel U was still white. The Sam Jackson Nick is in the Ulitmate Universe and the movies. Thats no differnent than the E-2 Hawkman being human and the E-1 Hawkman being an alien. Different universe, different characters.

What else you got?

[Nardpuncher]

theenglish wrote:

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Most characters that were re-done drastically were just replaced by new generations of the same hero. Hal Jordan and Kyle Rainer replacing Alan Scot for example, or the new Firestorm, Atom, and Blue Beetle come to mind.

Now, I havent read these 99 characters but the producer of the comic books says in the interview that he makes a specific point of not referencing religion specifically in the stories. These characters simply come from a different point of view than the traditional Judeo-Christian creations of North America from his point of view.

I am, however, genuinely concerned about the blatant ignorance of the Middle East coming from some posters on this board. Islam has as rich a cultural history and a myriad of interpretations and followers as Christianity does. Saying every Muslim is out to attack Western culture is like saying every Christian is a homophobe, a Nazi, or a member of the KKK.

Nobody defended Christianity here either. I certainly won't.
If you're a person that thinks religion is something to be seen with skepticism and that following an ideology that is based on falsehoods about the creation and nature of the universe then you must call it wherever you see it.

[Galactus]

As has already been pointed out. All of the Silver Age heroes were changed into different people. Except their race was not changed. So you are basically saying that if you like the change then it is not fundamental, but if you dislike it then it is. So again it seems like there just is no room in your comic world for any new characters who are diverse and no changes to the existing ones either. So tough luck to everybody that does not think like you.

For the record changing a character drastically would not be my first choice but when you are dealing with DC they basically got no choice because almost all their heroes are white males. I am glad that started making the effort to even things out. And then we have to be realistic also in the fact that there are only so projects out there and you have to get folks in them somehow.

When I see folks that complain about existing diverse heroes, complain about new diverse heroes and complain about changing existing heroes to make diverse heroes, then I don't see anything but someone not wanting any type of diversity.

[TheMasterOfOrion]

theenglish wrote:

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I am, however, genuinely concerned about the blatant ignorance of the Middle East coming from some posters on this board. Islam has as rich a cultural history and a myriad of interpretations and followers as Christianity does

ALL RELIGION In My Not So Humble Opinion, all religion Judaism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Mohammedism (the two forms of Islam)....its all a bunch of BullShit

but if you want to go ahead and keep defending Muslim faith then fine.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and each to their own
Mine is agnosticism, a philosophy based more on logic than superstition

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Mr. Adventure wrote:

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I bet this is the most popular character.

Actually, Darr the Afflicter is an American character.

John Weller was a promising young man with a bright future ahead of him, who belonged to a supportive family. He lost it all in a second when a drunk driver collided with his car a few years ago, killing his family and paralysing John from the waist down. After spending months rehabilitating at the hospital, John became disillusioned and bitter. Although the drunk driver's family paid for everything John needed, his anger continued to festeranger towards himself and the kind of irresponsibility that led to his tragedy.

John visited a 'holistic' healer who gave him a special stone, suggesting that the pretty gem would help John heal his scarred psyche. John was skeptical, but after the visit, he found himself inexplicably empowered with the ability to cause physical harm just by focusing his hatred on living target, human or animal. He discovered this when he attended the trial of the drunk driver who had hit him. The driver's family was powerful, and his sentence was light. From the wheelchair where John was doomed to spend his days, he seethed with anger at the injustice. As the driver left the courtroom, he clutched his head and released a tremendous scream, collapsing from a seizure that left him catatonic.

John reveled in his new power using it to punish anyone who was involved in a vehicular homicide, whether they had done their time or not, and regardless of their intent. John was located by Dr. Ramzi and his team after news of the St Louis "painwave" hit the newspapers.

http://www.the99.org/art-36-33-Articles-1-9-325,ckl