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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 24 2009, 09:16 AM   #151
Tulaberry whine
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

As much as I like the episode (another solid outing from the all-too-often overlooked second season), I think The Collaborator underscored how much a window should have been left opened for Kai Opaka to return and take on Winn at some point.

I think Preemptive Strike is probably the strongest out of the three though and is particularly notable for having a rather ballsy ending (for TNG anyway).
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Old July 24 2009, 09:47 AM   #152
PSGarak
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

What a great thread! It has been such a long time since I've seen TNG that I have only vague memories of the episodes in question, if at all. I'm re-watching DS9 thanks to the magic of Netflix and will eventually move into uncharted territory with it starting in Season 5. I've watched B5 several times, and it's currently the only one of the three I own on DVD. (Trek is just so expensive!)

However, of the three, DS9 and B5 both edge out TNG overall in my opinion. They have also stood the test of time much better. If anything, I'd say both DS9 and B5 were way ahead of their time politically. It's very interesting seeing an episode by episode head to head. Voyager never did anything for me at all, but I'll still enjoy seeing comparative reviews.
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Old July 24 2009, 04:38 PM   #153
Pemmer Harge
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I've just realised that All Good Things features guest appearances from regular cast members on both B5 and DS9! "So Captain, how long shall we stare at each other across the Neutral Zone?"
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Old July 25 2009, 01:25 PM   #154
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Week 31: (Ending 05.29.94)
TNG - All Good Things... (Airdate 05.23.94)
B5 - TKO (Airdate 05.25.94)

No competition, really. In fact, you wonder why B5 would air a new episode this week anyway. TNG, after 7 successful years of bringing television sci-fi to the mainstream, deserves going out in the solo-spotlight. Besides, B5 still had representation, what with G'Kar having disappeared into some sort of spacial anomaly and taking the body of a Romulan (seriously, Katsulus seems to still be in G'Kar mode playing Tomalak here). Maybe they were feeling a bit of the same cocky swagger as Walker Smith?

Here's the thing that's quite unfortunate for B5, however. TNG's series finale creates a floodgate of television sci-fi interest for the general public, and you've managed to catch some of the wash of that interest as folks hear about "that other new sci-fi show"; smartly, you air Signs & Portents before All Good Things airs, an episode that helped solidify yourself as a show worth keeping an eye on. Then, you follow it up with TKO. Oh dear.

TKO isn't a bad episode, but if you don't care about:
-martial arts
-Susan Ivanova
-Jewish ceremonies
then chances are you won't care about this episode -especially so if you were hoping for a quick follow-up to Signs & Portents. Not only that, but now you're going to have to wait until JULY for a new episode. Wait, huh?

TNG bows out awesomely. B5 goes into re-runs. Looks like DS9's going to have a clear run for its season finale.

Weekly Winner
TNG

Next:
DS9 - Tribunal
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Old July 25 2009, 05:32 PM   #155
Pemmer Harge
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Sykonee wrote: View Post

Besides, B5 still had representation, what with G'Kar having disappeared into some sort of spacial anomaly and taking the body of a Romulan (seriously, Katsulus seems to still be in G'Kar mode playing Tomalak here).
All the better! I genuinely enjoyed TKO a lot, but it's pretty much the definition of filler, whereas All Good Things is a fantastic finale. All the different time periods, Yar, O'Brien, Q, ships exploding, Worf/Troi becoming official, Picard joining the poker game. All in all it was a very fitting send-off and very much in keeping with the spirit of this show. Some excellent performances too, especially from McFadden, I thought. The end of an era.
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Old July 27 2009, 06:08 AM   #156
Sykonee
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I genuinely enjoyed TKO a lot, but it's pretty much the definition of filler,
The episode does receive a fair bit of flak, but I think it's mostly from those who watched S1 after watching S2-4. Folks just aren't used to B5 having filler episodes right after Event Episodes, if at all.

Week 32: (Ending 06.05.94)
DS9 - Tribunal (Airdate 06.05.94)

Hey, what's this? I thought Star Trek was done. Didn't they just have a series finale a couple weeks ago? And where's Picard? They mentioned the Enterprise, but we didn't even see it. Oh well, it was nice seeing O'Brien again. Where did he go after Chain Of Command anyway?

Joking aside, you can tell the writers had a lot of fun with this episode. Oh, maybe not so much the actual plot (most of those scenes were incredibly exposition heavy), but in letting their creativity go wild in fleshing out the Cardassians even more. It must be heaven for TV sci-fi writers to have multiple shows to create whole alien cultures instead of getting stuck with Alien-Of-The-Weeks. (yes, this is foreshadow)

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - The Jem'Hadar
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Old July 27 2009, 10:17 AM   #157
Pemmer Harge
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

I like O'Brien and the Cardassians, but for some reason Tribunal didn't really do it for me. The next episode however...
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Old July 29 2009, 09:40 PM   #158
seigezunt
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

great idea.

I actually have started watching DS9 again, since it was first on, what with the dvds finally dropping down in price. I'm realizing I haven't seen much beyond the second season, except for isolated episodes here and there. I also am watching Enterprise.
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Old July 30 2009, 12:10 AM   #159
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Wow, what a relief DS9 won this week.

I was on the edge of my seat waiting for how the voting would turn out.

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I genuinely enjoyed TKO a lot, but it's pretty much the definition of filler,
The episode does receive a fair bit of flak, but I think it's mostly from those who watched S1 after watching S2-4. Folks just aren't used to B5 having filler episodes right after Event Episodes, if at all.

Week 32: (Ending 06.05.94)
DS9 - Tribunal (Airdate 06.05.94)

Hey, what's this? I thought Star Trek was done. Didn't they just have a series finale a couple weeks ago? And where's Picard? They mentioned the Enterprise, but we didn't even see it. Oh well, it was nice seeing O'Brien again. Where did he go after Chain Of Command anyway?

Joking aside, you can tell the writers had a lot of fun with this episode. Oh, maybe not so much the actual plot (most of those scenes were incredibly exposition heavy), but in letting their creativity go wild in fleshing out the Cardassians even more. It must be heaven for TV sci-fi writers to have multiple shows to create whole alien cultures instead of getting stuck with Alien-Of-The-Weeks. (yes, this is foreshadow)

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - The Jem'Hadar
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Old July 30 2009, 03:22 AM   #160
Sykonee
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Hmm, I could have sworn I posted the final week, and now it's disappeared. Heat must be getting to me...

Week 33: (Ending 06.05.94)
DS9 - The Jem'Hadar (Airdate 06.05.94)

I'm trying to think of a previous episode of Trek that pulled this big of a 'bait-and-switch' storytelling device, and the only one that comes to mind is Q Who, and even then you still had some element of suspense in the early goings of that TNG episode; The Jem'Hadar leads you down a completely false road in starting out like another Shadowplay-type of show before revealing what we're really up against. And while both end on an effective Ominous Omen, you have to wonder which New Enemy made the better impression. Well, the Borg were incredibly frightening -and the only way the Enterprise was able to escape them was with a literal deus ex machina. On the other hand, the Jem'Hadar inflicted far heavier casualties in their attack, plus they let Sisko go, in order to infiltrate Starfleet no less! Suddenly those quirky Cardassians don't seem like such a big deal anymore...

So, I guess this means the Dominion are Serious Business. Does this officially make DS9 the Trek show for all Major Trek Events now that TNG on TV is done? How will that new Trek show on the horizon -Voyager- play into this? Might the TNG movie have a prominent role as well? Intrigue, intrigue... oh such Summer of '94 intrigue...

Weekly Winner
DS9

That's a wrap for S2. Next up is seeing how had the strongest show between our three competitors -TNG, DS9, and B5- during the Fall '93 - Spring '94 run.
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Old July 30 2009, 10:00 AM   #161
Pemmer Harge
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

This episode truly did look like it was going to be pretty weak - oh great, Sisko, Jake, Quark and Nog go off to some planet, I wonder what wacky adventures will ensue? But then...
The series had been teasing the viewer about the Dominion for a while now, but to have them suddenly show up in such an explosive way was really effective. They really pulled off an "everything's different now" moment and it was a defining point in the evolution of the show.
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Old August 1 2009, 01:25 PM   #162
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Season 2 Tally

I'm going to do things a little different here, with four categories this time: Solo, Trek Versus, B5 Versus, and Triple-Threat Versus. The first and last categories are obvious, but a Trek Versus is where both Trek shows would be airing the same week, and B5 was not; B5 Versus is where B5 would be airing against only one of the Trek shows. A single point will be tallied to whichever show won for that week. Here are the results.

Solo
TNG - 4
DS9 - 4
B5 - 1

Trek Versus
TNG - 3
DS9 - 8

B5 Versus
TNG - 1
DS9 - 1
B5 - 3

Triple-Threat Versus
TNG - 2
DS9 - 4
B5 - 2

Some interesting observations:
-B5 really had its work cut out for it, as it was in competition with Trek for nearly the entire time (tho' it would get the summer to itself). Considering it had to get past its early growing pains, the rookie did surprisingly well against the far-more polished Trek
-in fact, it's really remarkable that, for the most part, B5 managed to beat TNG. The elder Trek only solidly won with Lower Decks and All Good Things, arguably amongst the best shows it had to offer for the season (Thine Own Self could have gone to DS9's Shadowplay instead, such a dull week that was)
-similarly, DS9 managed to give quite the trouncing to TNG; chalk that up to strong bookends to DS9's season

Man, what a bizarre season of TV sci-fi this was. There were some brilliant early highlights from the two fledging shows and a few last moments of excellence from the veteran. But God, were there ever some dismal moments from all three shows as well. Easily the worst from both B5 (understandable for a new show) and TNG (inexcusable, even if you are winding down), and a few dreary moments from DS9 (what are we even about again?).

All said and done, despite the mid-season drag, DS9 managed to have the strongest season here. It came out guns blazing against TNG in the fall and firmly established itself as a show worth keeping an eye on in the spring. For all its early gusto, B5 sort of floundered for a while as it tried to find its legs in the kind of episodes it wanted to do; TNG just seemed content to do a victory lap before the race was even done.

Winner
DS9

Well, I'm going on a little vacation for a couple weeks now, so there won't be any updates for the start of DS9's S3 until I get back. I guess it'll just be like a real summer television break. Thanks for the continued support and readership of this thread, it's always comforting to know one's efforts aren't in vain.
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Old August 1 2009, 06:58 PM   #163
mattyhugh
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

If you really cared you'd take your DVDs on Vaca with you
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Old August 1 2009, 08:00 PM   #164
Pemmer Harge
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

You're probably right about the seasons up to this point, but B5 season 1 hasn't finished yet and it got stronger towards the end! It's odd how TNG managed to combine some of the very best episodes it ever did (Parallels, Lower Decks, Pre-emptive Strike) with such poor episodes as Interface and Masks. Apart from Necessary Evil I don't think DS9 really came up with anything quite so good (ie basically perfect) this season, but it didn't have any real stinkers either. Plus it gets ambition points for the Circle trilogy and the season finale. Looking back at the first 14 B5 episodes I think the quality was quite good, with Mind War being the best and Infection the worst. However, most of my favourite season 1 episodes are from the latter half of the season. In retrospect Signs and Portents was the beginning of an upward trend.
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Old August 2 2009, 02:34 AM   #165
Sykonee
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Re: DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

mattyhugh wrote: View Post
If you really cared you'd take your DVDs on Vaca with you
But there's no electricity out in the woods.
but B5 season 1 hasn't finished yet and it got stronger towards the end!
Off season training.
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