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Old July 26 2009, 03:30 PM   #2251
Furtados_Feet
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
3½, maybe a 4. I liked Valiant, it was about a bunch of annoying and vainglorious buffoons getting what was coming to them, and I find very little more enjoyable than watching a bunch of punk kids failing. My biggest complaints about it are the horrible score and the fact that the only escape pod to be recovered contained Jake and Nog.
The squash faced girl survived.
The fact that you'd give "Valiant" a 4 star makes me question your taste even further.
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Old July 26 2009, 03:46 PM   #2252
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Akiraprise wrote: View Post
I'm not sure if we're supposed to feel sorry for them or not. I cheered when Cadet Waters got his.
I remember when they hit their target and there was a big explosion and everyone started to cheer, a little piece of me died. "Oh no, not another episode where we're told we can do whatever we put our mind to." But then the Dominion ship rose out of the explosion and annihilated the poor Valiant, and that made me feel better about setting my life-goals so low.

I guess I did feel sorry at one part of the episode. The destruction of the Valiant. Poor ship didn't deserve that.
I guess not, but I couldn't help myself:




Dark Images (*½)

The episode started out quite well, Kes goes a little insane and forgets who she is so she has to be brought to sickbay. The scene where Neelix shows up and realises that he still loves Kes was quite moving, and his determination to stay with her and devote himself to finding out what is wrong with her was very well handled. It's good when his character is treated seriously.

Things start going wrong when we find out that Kes' ailment is caused by a nest of giant space bees inside her stomach, but then they escape her body and start to spread around the ship. The episode goes from bad to worse when the bees infect the holodeck and form a new nest inside the Fair Haven program, so Tom, Harry and Janeway have to enter the program and work with the locals to kill the bees. They manage to jury-rig a fire-truck into spraying out a stream of quantum-malengular positrons (an orange light) that will kill the bees, so they drive around Fair Haven killing bees as though they were the Ghostbusters.

I don't know why Joe Menosky decided to take the episode in this bizarre direction, I guess this was one of his high-concept stories that got a little out of control.

Yes, I've started to have dreams about reviewing episodes of Voyager.
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Old July 26 2009, 07:55 PM   #2253
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think I'd prefer that episode to the disaster that is the next one. Voyager meets Ghostbusters against killer bees sounds far more interesting than what we got.
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Old July 26 2009, 09:44 PM   #2254
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Okay, time to play catchup.
I warned you this would happen when you got that job.
And frak me if I'm not more behind now!

I hate it when you're right - i.e. pretty much always!

GodBen wrote: View Post
It has definitely gotten worse over the years, and it was particularly noticeable in Dragon's Teeth. I'm just browsing the script and here's some common technobabble phrases that were just thrown into the battle in order to make it "more dramatic".

Shields at maximum. Weapons standing by.
Target phasers, full spread.
Shields at ninety two percent.
Evasive manoeuvres.
Reroute emergency power.
Targeting sensors offline. Switching to manual.
Aft shields down to twenty percent.
Our sensor array took heavy damage.
We've lost impulse engines and navigation.
Thrusters are failing.
How about emergency power?
Thirteen power relays just blew out on deck six.
JustKate wrote: View Post
^ Can you really call it "babble" if it's understandable? Don't get me wrong, VOY did a lot of technobabble, but most of your examples here seem...well, sometimes unnecessary maybe, but not actual babbling. I mean, if shields are down or power relays have blown out, that is (or at least ought to be) a fairly important plot point, yes? Or at least indicators of the seriousness of the situation.

Edit: I mean, is it really any worse than those little dramatic things that non-scifi does? You know, like in a war movie when they start talking about running low on ammo or a mystery when the detective always ends up looking for stuff with a flashlight after dark instead of in daylight.
On this topic of babble, I think there's a thin line between what the TOS writer's guide called "jargon" and made-up stuff that doesn't do anything. I think the examples that GodBen cited are borderline babble but read to me more like jargon, because while we may not fully understand it, it's simple enough that we can get an idea off what's going on. Still, it's best to say things like that simply - and realistically - at the same time.

Now, if they were talking about repolarizing the deflector grid and diverting auxiliary power to the lateral EPS array, that's full-on babble to me.

GodBen wrote: View Post
We have a double header tonight!


One Small Step (**½)

Isn't it amazing how the the ship from 2028 didn't have artificial gravity when the DY-100 class ships had such technology in 1996?
{snip}
The big problem I have with this episode is that it should have been a Chakotay episode rather than a Seven episode, here we see Chakotay coming into contact with one of his heroes and we really don't get a proper conclusion to that because the episode switches focus to Seven. Actually, the episode really should have focused on Paris when you consider that he is the guy who displayed interest in the early Mars missions in at least one previous episode, but here he is just treated as the pilot, he has a severe case of the Mayweathers going on.
Agreed there. It doesn't have to involve Seven to be good, dang it!

In fact, sometimes if it's about her, it still isn't good:

GodBen wrote: View Post
The Voyager Conspiracy (*½)

I can just about buy into the idea that Seven's brain overloads and she starts coming up with insane conspiracy theories, but there is no way in hell that I could possibly buy into the idea that Janeway and Chakotay buy into them with no supporting evidence and abandon everything they know about one another. All this episode does is make Janeway and Chakotay look like utter fools, but if anybody knows how to contact them I have a subspace bridge for sale...

And what about the evidence that Seven discovered? What about the Cardassian ship which just disappeared? What about the tractor beam during the explosion of the Caretaker array? Where did the Tetrion reactor that Tash used on his slingshot come from? In order to make Seven's position have any form of validity the episode creates these conundrums and then fails to explain any of them.
Dead-on. The episode really makes it seem like there are a bunch of unexplained inconsistencies to make it seem possible that there was a conspiracy, and then expects us to go "no, there wasn't really" at the end?

GodBen wrote: View Post
Pathfinder (***½)

I know that there's some out there who dislike Barclay and I can understand why, I personally like him but consider him to be a character of diminishing returns. His first few episodes on TNG were good, but by Genesis his shtick was wearing thin. Projections was good partly because it wasn't really Barclay, but in Pathfinder it is a Barclay who has suffered a relapse and is even more Barclay-esque than he was in Hollow Pursuits. For that reason I found Barclay a little annoying to watch in this episode. The most fun is to be had when Barclay is acting at his least Barclay-esque in the Voyager holo-program (although I do find it amusing that even in Barclay's imagination of Voyager Lt Carey is a non-entity in Engineering ).

Some minor quibbles include Troi who feels like a gratuitous addition in an episode which is already in danger of falling into that category on its own. As to how Barclay knows where Voyager is considering the ship jumped 30,000 light-years since they last contacted Starfleet... well, I'm sure everybody realised that on their own.
Agreed there, too. Not much to add, in fact.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Fair Haven (0)

JANEWAY: You have outdone yourself this time. Everything is authentic, except for one tiny detail.
...
SHMULLY: As I recall, the Captain is quite an aficionado of Irish history.
Having watched Darby O'Gill and the Little People does not make one an aficionado of Irish history. The program seems to be based in the late 19th century, probably between 1870-1900 in which case the episode is missing several important features; the land war, religious tensions, mass emigration, the Home Rule movement and... oh yeah, the fact that the country was still occupied by a foreign power.

The later half of the 19th century was a turbulent time in Irish history and the political fallout from the period sowed the seeds for the eventual creation of the Irish Free State in 1922. I'm not saying that the episode should have focused on these things because the writers clearly wanted the episode to be a light story about a romantic entanglement with a hologram, but if you're going to play so fast and loose with history then you shouldn't be patting yourself on the back for being so accurate.

JANEWAY: Excuse me, sir. Is the train to Galway running on time?
MICHAEL: It's a steep climb but from the top of the battlement you can see all the way to Dublin.
Time for a geography lesson, take a look at this map of Ireland.



I've circled Co Clare in red, it's in the mid-west region. We know that Fair Haven is a coastal town near Co Clare, so that would place it somewhere in Co Galway or Co Kerry, both of which I've circled in blue. Of those two counties it is more likely that Fair Haven is in Co Galway because Janeway enquired about the train to Galway (presumably referring to the city) and there would never have been a direct train line between Kerry and Galway due to the Shannon estuary, the train would have been heading to Limerick city. Using Google Earth I have calculated that the shortest possible distance between Fair Haven and Co Dublin is 160km, or 100 miles. That must be one bloody high castle!

To some this may seem like a minor nit-pick and I would generally agree, but it is a symbol of a huge problem this episode had for me; they keep on throwing in "Irish" references while hardly seeming to understand what they're talking about. But hey, Dublin is a city in Ireland so that makes it authentic.

And I haven't even begun to discuss the Irish sterotyping contained within the episode. What I liked about Chief O'Brien was that he was a person who happened to be Irish, but every single one of the characters in the Fair Haven program is an Irish stereotype who happens to be a person. You have the mischievous drunk stereotype, the rugged yet sensitive stereotype, the red-haired temptress stereotype... The whole town is populated with overused Irish stereotypes, but I guess that makes it "authentic".

I normally don't let this sort of thing bother me so much, and I generally play along with some of the stereotypes such as the drinking and love of potatoes. But the incessant nature of the stereotyping and the name-dropping in this episode while claiming that the whole thing is authentic is very aggravating to me. I hope you understand why I have to give this episode a zero.

Imagine if Tom had decided to make a holoprogram set in an African American community and he has all the black characters being of lower than average intelligence, they survive on a diet of watermelons and fried chicken and they add "izzle" to the end of every second word. Now imagine he set the program in Mississippi in the 1960s and completely failed to mention anything about the racial tensions and the civil rights movement. Now imagine Janeway walking in and saying "This is very authentic work Tom, and I should know because I'm an expert on African American culture, my nizzle".

Absolutely brilliantly put, sir. I am of Irish ancestry myself, and despite not knowing nearly as much as you do, this episode and "Spirit Folk" always felt like insulting utter wastes of time, in every way possible, to say nothing of the drama of Janeway's holographic boyfriend. Geez.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Blink of an Eye (****)

This is easily one of the best sci-fi plot based episodes of the series, the concept is cool and the episode manages to back it up for the most part. And even though the story takes place across several days and a few centuries at the same time, the whole thing manages to be seamless.

Two problems hold it back a little, the biggest problem is the use of Shmully. He lived three years on that planet with a partner and child, yet when Voyager beams him back up he doesn't seem to care about the family he was leaving behind? That should be a life-changing experience for Shmully but instead he is pleased to return to Voyager and take up his old job. And just like O'Brien's experience in Hard Time, this second life is never mentioned again.

The other problem is that this species will probably be super-advanced by the end of the week, yet we never hear from them again? It's the embodiment of episodic story-telling.
Totally agreed there, too.

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
When you think about it, if Voyager had just hung around nearby for a few more hours, the aliens on that planet probably could have managed to come up with a super engine that could have gotten them home.
Bah, foiled again!

GodBen wrote: View Post
Virtuoso (**)

I went into this episode with bad memories, so I was pleasantly surprised by the first 20 minutes or so where there is some comedy that managed to make me laugh. While I'm not a fan of how Shmully's character developed annoying traits over the years (such as the holo-photography thing) in this episode he manages to be annoying and humorous at the same time.

Then the second half of the episode kicks in and Shmully decides to leave Voyager for a career as a singer. No, that would not happen, the necessities of the plot are forcing the character to do things he would never do and that absolutely kills this episode for me. This was a man who just last week was so overjoyed to return to Voyager that he abandoned his son, and they expect me to believe that he is going to throw it all away again for fame and the love of a badly-acted woman? Shmully may be a flawed individual who is a little too in love with himself, but he is not a moron.
You've totally summed up my love/hate relationship with this episode, and the Doc in general. I hated how in later episodes he seemed to become irksome simply to be irksome. I'm all for the exploration of the nature of artificial life if there's something to be gained from it, but I never really felt like anything was gained from it.

GodBen wrote: View Post
SHMULLY: So, without further ado, I give you Harry Kim and the Kimtones!
How pathetic are these bastards that Harry Kim is considered the cool one?!
They're the shuttle-building team, obviously.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Memorial (****)

Soooo... war is bad then?

How often do you get an episode where Chakotay, Neelix, Paris and Harry all get something meaningful to do? Its amazing, they chose the four worst utilised characters and actors in this show and based an episode around them, and they all managed to deliver. The whole mystery element didn't work for me because I remembered the plot of this episode, but the intentions of this episode are good even if a little obvious.

I enjoy Shmully as much as everyone else, and Seven has her moments, but I think there is much more that can be done with these four characters which is not being done. This episode worked for me because it is a strong ensemble show, I'd like more episodes like this please.
Yes, I can has moar? I really did enjoy this ep.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Tsunkatse (**)

I remember when this episode first aired there was a promo dedicated to how there was going to be an epic confrontation between Seven and The Rock. I had no idea who Mr Rock was and a friend had to explain to me that he was some sort of professional wrestler. When I saw the episode I thought to myself "Why didn't they play up that Weyoun and Martok were going to be in it rather than that stupid two minute fight scene with that dumb wrestler guy?"

J. G. Hertzler? Great, I'll watch that.

Jeffrey Combs? Excellent, I'll watch that three times!

The Rock? Do I have to watch that?
Okay, so I may get my nerd card revoked for this, but here goes.

I actually watched "professional wrestling" (yes, I know, it's fake) with my dad up through my teen years, so I knew who the Rock was. And it was everso painfully obvious that his cameo was designed to get wrestling fans to watch VGR by presenting VGR as some kind of action show.

That said, they almost made an interseting episode despite it.

GodBen wrote: View Post
The episode is surprisingly alright in spite of all the boring wrestling bits. I think this episode follows on quite well from Memorial by giving smaller characters something to do even while the episode is focused on Seven. Chakotay, B'Elanna and Tuvok all have meaningful roles, Chakotay in particular works well as the guy in charge of the attempt to rescue Seven while Janeway is away. Chakotay's character is at his best right now than he has been since the beginning of season 4, I hope they can maintain this standard for his character.

This episode reminded me of DS9's By Inferno's Light, the scenes of Worf fighting the Jem'Hadar soldiers in the prison camp are very reminiscent to the Tsunkatse matches. Unfortunately the Worf fighting matches were the only thing I did not like about that two-parter and it was only made respectable by having the Jemmie refuse to kill Worf at the end. Since this episode is based around that concept entirely I completely lost interest in the Seven story. The Voyager-based story was good until the end when it devolved into "things get blowed up real good" mode.
Yes, exactly.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Also, the episode is a rehash of The Gamesters of Triskelion, so I think this might be the first time I deduct points for stealing a plot from TOS rather than TNG. And on that subject, Memory Alpha had this to say about the episode:
As with "Blink of an Eye", this episode's title had to be changed shortly before shooting when it was realized that it matched a TOS episode's: "Arena".
Whaaaaat? I can understand the Wink of an Eye one because that wasn't a memorable episode, but Arena is one of the most famous TOS episodes, so much so that I knew it and its name long before I set out to watch TOS. How could almost the entire production staff on a Star Trek show not remember the time Kirk fought the Gorn?
Holy. Crap. Really?

GodBen wrote: View Post
Collective (***½)

One thing this episode does fairly well is recover the Borg from how weak and stupid they seemed in Dark Frontier. Turning the Borg into a bunch of kids seems like a recipe for disaster, but the fact that five Borg kids are menacing and a match for Voyager makes the regular Borg seem even more powerful. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

The episode itself is fairly good, although Chakotay, Neelix and Paris all seem to get lost somewhere. After the last two episodes I was hoping the show was going to maintain the ensemble feel but this episode stays mainly focused on Seven and Janeway with a little Harry thrown in. The conflict between First and the rest of the Borg was a little too telegraphed, and his refusal to back down at the end was based in stupidity, but the other Borg worked well, particularly Icheb. The final ten minutes or so also falls into a generic fight sequence where Voyager wins with magic technobabble.

The Delta Flyer fires three torpedoes before they are captured.

Torpedoes: 64/38
Agreed overall on that one. I was very surprised how much I liked this episode when it first aired.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Awesome.

GodBen wrote: View Post
Dark Images (*½)

The episode started out quite well, Kes goes a little insane and forgets who she is so she has to be brought to sickbay. The scene where Neelix shows up and realises that he still loves Kes was quite moving, and his determination to stay with her and devote himself to finding out what is wrong with her was very well handled. It's good when his character is treated seriously.

Things start going wrong when we find out that Kes' ailment is caused by a nest of giant space bees inside her stomach, but then they escape her body and start to spread around the ship. The episode goes from bad to worse when the bees infect the holodeck and form a new nest inside the Fair Haven program, so Tom, Harry and Janeway have to enter the program and work with the locals to kill the bees. They manage to jury-rig a fire-truck into spraying out a stream of quantum-malengular positrons (an orange light) that will kill the bees, so they drive around Fair Haven killing bees as though they were the Ghostbusters.

I don't know why Joe Menosky decided to take the episode in this bizarre direction, I guess this was one of his high-concept stories that got a little out of control.

Yes, I've started to have dreams about reviewing episodes of Voyager.
Now I'm a little worried about you, pal. Been reading too many badmovies.org reviews?
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Old July 26 2009, 11:14 PM   #2255
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ I think we all knew that he was going to snap eventually.

Fair haven could push anybody over the edge.
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Old July 27 2009, 01:38 AM   #2256
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
I think I'd prefer that episode to the disaster that is the next one. Voyager meets Ghostbusters against killer bees sounds far more interesting than what we got.
So you're suggesting I should become a writer?

Praetor wrote: View Post
I hate it when you're right - i.e. pretty much always!
I'm afraid it is never going to end, I'm always going to be right.

Absolutely brilliantly put, sir. I am of Irish ancestry myself, and despite not knowing nearly as much as you do, this episode and "Spirit Folk" always felt like insulting utter wastes of time, in every way possible, to say nothing of the drama of Janeway's holographic boyfriend. Geez.
You're not one of those members of the diaspora that proudly proclaims themselves to be Irish while not knowing what they're talking about, supporting the IRA and emailing real Irish people to ask if they know the Kelly family that they're distantly related to... are you?

Okay, so I may get my nerd card revoked for this, but here goes.

I actually watched "professional wrestling" (yes, I know, it's fake) with my dad up through my teen years, so I knew who the Rock was.
Oh dear, I don't know if we can be friends anymore.

destro wrote: View Post
^ I think we all knew that he was going to snap eventually.
I haven't snapped yet. I may have had a dream about watching a really bad episode of Voyager, but I could still tell that it was a bad episode! If I was to have a dream about a bad episode of Voyager and reviewed it with an excellent score then I'd have snapped.


Spirit Folk (If I ever meet Bryan Fuller I am going to knee him in the gonads)

The rules state I'm not allowed to give minus scores, but they say nothing about issuing threats against the writers. You can take that as a 0.

SEAMUS: Killmannin, 1846.
...
MILO: The cows stopped giving milk. The potatoes grew rotten in the ground.
Potatoes? Rotten? In Ireland? In 1846? Say it ain't so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland):
In 1846 three-quarters of the [potato] harvest was lost to blight.
Oh right, that pesky potato famine that killed a million people. Hmm, you'd think the people of Fair Haven would remember that.

SEAMUS: Old Patsy down in County Meath spoke of a band of spirit folk who came to Killmannin in '46.
Lets consult our map again, shall we?



We've already determined that Fair Haven is most likely in County Galway, in which case Meath (NW of Dublin) is not down at all. The word Bryan Fuller was looking for is "over".

MICHAEL: You've been lying to me, Katie. I've been doing some checking with friends of mine in County Clare. Seems nobody's heard of you there.
JANEWAY: It's a big county.
MICHAEL: And I've got a lot of friends.
Between 1871 and 1901 the population of Clare ranged between 147,864 and 112,334. So yes, Michael has a lot of friends. At least 5,000 in Clare alone, I'd reckon.

TORRES: With all due respect, Captain. Michael can be reprogrammed. Tom and Harry can't.
JANEWAY: One problem at a time, B'Elanna. The people of Fair Haven may not be real, but our feelings toward them are. I won't destroy these relationships if we can find another way.
Ah, good old Janeway, displaying the magnificent captaining skills that make her the least popular captain on this board. (And before you ask, I voted for Pine's Kirk because I like Janeway half the time.)

MICHAEL: I had a cousin went to America. He saw some strange things, but nothing like this.
JANEWAY: You're not in America.
Why is it that when historical European holo-characters come into contact with 24th century technology they think that they're in America? (Another example is the da Vinci hologram in Concerning Flight.) Far be it from me to be the one who defends the reputation of the British Empire, but they were nothing too shabby during the later half of the 19th century. They were one of the most advanced civilisations of the age, and while rural Ireland was by no means enjoying the fruits of this advanced technology it wouldn't have been a complete paradigm shift.


Okay, the Fair Haven episodes are now behind me, I can no longer look forward with dread.
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Old July 27 2009, 04:18 PM   #2257
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I was never really a huge fan of "Pathfinder." Barclay did work well to an extent on VOY, but having him have a huge relapse didn't really seem to accomplish anything. Barclay works when it's shown he's smart if a little neurotic at times, and not just a lonely guy who only gets entertainment from his fantasies.
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Old July 27 2009, 06:53 PM   #2258
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Dark Images (*½)

The episode started out quite well, Kes goes a little insane and forgets who she is so she has to be brought to sickbay. The scene where Neelix shows up and realises that he still loves Kes was quite moving, and his determination to stay with her and devote himself to finding out what is wrong with her was very well handled. It's good when his character is treated seriously.

Things start going wrong when we find out that Kes' ailment is caused by a nest of giant space bees inside her stomach, but then they escape her body and start to spread around the ship. The episode goes from bad to worse when the bees infect the holodeck and form a new nest inside the Fair Haven program, so Tom, Harry and Janeway have to enter the program and work with the locals to kill the bees. They manage to jury-rig a fire-truck into spraying out a stream of quantum-malengular positrons (an orange light) that will kill the bees, so they drive around Fair Haven killing bees as though they were the Ghostbusters.

I don't know why Joe Menosky decided to take the episode in this bizarre direction, I guess this was one of his high-concept stories that got a little out of control.

Yes, I've started to have dreams about reviewing episodes of Voyager.
You nearly fooled me. I missed several episodes of the later seasons and I really wondered whether I missed that one for a moment.
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Old July 28 2009, 12:40 AM   #2259
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Ashes to Ashes (*)

BALLARD: You're a sight for sore eyes, Captain. You, too, Harry.
JANEWAY: I'm sorry, but do we know you?
BALLARD: I'm Ensign Lyndsay Ballard. I was a member of your crew.
Ensign Ballard, how I missed her! She was a great character back in the early seasons, her interactions with Harry were very memorable and her death was one of the most emotional moments of the show. I remember that she and Harry were Best Friends Forever at the academy and they both ended up on Voyager so that Harry wouldn't be relying upon the friendship of a criminal like Tom Paris. Harry was in love with her all that time, of course, so that means his engagement to Libby was a sham because he was too much of a pussy to ask out the girl he really liked. But that's par for the course for our Harry.

TUVOK: This is Lieutenant Commander Tuvok.
BALLARD: Sounds like someone got promoted.
BALLARD: When we landed, we realised it was a trap set by a Hirogen hunting party.
BALLARD: The girl you were in love with died three years ago.
Word to the wise, don't let the noob write an episode where he retcons in a character, he'll mess things up.

SEVEN: I've allotted one hour for recreational activity. There's no time for irrelevant conversation.
I wonder what lesson Seven is going to learn today?

SEVEN: Fun will now commence.
Perhaps she'll learn that she needs companionship?

CHAKOTAY: Doesn't sound like there's much time for fun.
SEVEN: On the contrary, I've scheduled recreational activities.
CHAKOTAY: You can't always schedule fun, Seven. Sometimes it needs to be spontaneous.
Perhaps she'll learn to put some faith in her instincts?

SEVEN: Then grant my request. Choose a more suitable crew member to instruct them.
CHAKOTAY: Sorry, Seven. Permission denied.
Damn right! Who cares how much Seven screws up a bunch a children's lives? She needs to learn a lesson, godsdamnit!

KIM: In six years, I have never been invited to the Captain's quarters for dinner.


JANEWAY: My replicator decided to liquefy the pot roast.


REPLICATORS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

BALLARD: Why did you choose me for that away mission?
JANEWAY: Why, I suppose I thought you were best suited for the job.
BALLARD: No, I wasn't. Dilithium extraction was always Lieutenant Torres' speciality and Tuvok had far more experience conducting away missions, but you didn't send either one of them. Was it because they were closer to you?
Hot damn, this episode might just have a purpose!

JANEWAY: You blame me.
BALLARD: No, no, that's not what I meant.
Ah, bugger.

KIM: I'm crazy about you. I have been since the day we met.
BALLARD: Why didn't you ever tell me?
KIM: I was never good at public speaking, remember, but I figure, how often do you get a second chance? Which is why I'd very much like to kiss you now.
BALLARD: Own the day.
Dagnabbit, why does he get the ladies and I don't? We're both annoying, reserved, pathetic and nerdy, and I'm not that unattractive.

ICHEB: She deviated from your instructions. Aren't you going to implement a punishment protocol?
SEVEN: No. Resume your disorder.
Oh, she's going to learn the importance of fun? I totally did not see that coming.

JANEWAY: Your ship is no match for Voyager.
Q'RET: Every life is precious to my people, Captain. I won't be coming back alone.
This was an interesting race, why does the show have to go the "evil" threat route with them?

KIM: So I was giving some thought to number thirty two, make Tuvok laugh? He has this holo programme, The Temple of T'Panit. I thought we might tweak it so that instead of Vulcan prayers, the monks recite Ferengi limericks?
...
KIM:You're not laughing.
Maybe that's because you're NOT FUNNY!

Come on, what does she see in this guy?! He doesn't even have the funny thing going for him. I've got the funny thing going for me!


Minus half a star for being a TNG episode.
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Old July 28 2009, 01:21 AM   #2260
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It just so happens I watched this episode tonight. The retconning really hurts the episode but I kinda like Ashes to Ashes, mostly because of the good work of the gorgeous guest actress. It made me wish Ensign Ballard had been the recurring character this episode made her out to be. Her line "Did he include your pot roast?" and the way she said it had me laughing for a good two minutes.

The rigid interaction of the Borg children also put a smile on my face. One thing VOY did well was its children, something both TOS and TNG handled terribly.
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Old July 28 2009, 01:12 PM   #2261
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The actress who played Ballard was good and she was certainly a unique character, but I was very annoyed how they took such an interesting concept and turned it into a Harry romance episode. I also find it ridiculous that she would spend three years living as a Kobali but she only realises that she doesn't properly remember her past life until after she gets back to Voyager. It felt very fake to me, and it felt like a routine push of the reset button in order to get rid of this potentially interesting character.
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Old July 28 2009, 04:27 PM   #2262
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Agreed. There were some interesting aspects to that problem, of her not being able to completely resume her original life, that the writers didn't use particularly well.
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Old July 29 2009, 12:44 AM   #2263
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Child's Play (***½)

You know what would be awesome? To find your long-lost father and learn that he's Romo Lampkin. If I had a choice between staying on Voyager or staying with Romo Lampkin I know what I'd choose! Unless its the Romo from that really stupid gun scene in Sine Qua Non, in which case I'd prefer to take my chances with Janeway.

Oh right, there was an story here somewhere, wasn't there?

The episode was good for the most part, the earlier parts of the story where Icheb learns about his people and eventually decides to stay with them are solid stuff. There was one stand-out scene where Seven and Janeway argue in the ready room, for some reason I really enjoyed that scene and thought it was possibly the best so far this season. Seven learning to let go of Icheb was also well-handled.

The second part of the episode where we learn Icheb's parent's sinister plan has me conflicted. On the one hand it works as an explanation to what happened with the cube he was on, and the idea of parents purposefully engineering their child to be used as a weapon has a lot of potential. I don't think this potential was met, and the realisation that his parents didn't really want him back does hurt the earlier parts of the episode. The scenes of Romo and Icheb reconnecting felt real, but were they?

One torpedo was used to disable the Borg sphere.

Torpedoes: 65/38
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Old July 29 2009, 11:32 AM   #2264
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
The actress who played Ballard was good and she was certainly a unique character, but I was very annoyed how they took such an interesting concept and turned it into a Harry romance episode. I also find it ridiculous that she would spend three years living as a Kobali but she only realises that she doesn't properly remember her past life until after she gets back to Voyager. It felt very fake to me, and it felt like a routine push of the reset button in order to get rid of this potentially interesting character.
I wouldn't agree with that GodBen, I think it's perfectly possible to pine for a past life whilst not quite remembering it properly. Ballard wouldn't realise that she wasn't remembering things properly until she got back to Voyager and had certain things she should remember, eg her human father, pointed out to her.

I do agree that it was a shame to turn an episode and character that had so much potential into a Harry romance!! I wouldn't've minded if we'd seen her before she died!

Some aspects of the continuity bothered me. She was supposed to have been away three years - weren't there a couple of big jumps Voyager took in that time? How did she catch up?

Plus, Harry says during this episode they've been away six years. So three years ago was the point that Seven arrived and Kes left. Yet Ballard was killed by a Hirogen Hunting party. They were introduced to the Hirogen when they used that array thing to send the Doc home and receive their letters from Earth including the captain's Dear John letter in Hunters, in which it states they've been away for four years. Errors like that make my head hurt, I like things to add up!!!! How much did they pay these people to write flawed stuff?

And if Janeway really can't work a replicator, where did that perfect looking bread come from?
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Old July 29 2009, 01:19 PM   #2265
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Frazzled wrote: View Post
I wouldn't agree with that GodBen, I think it's perfectly possible to pine for a past life whilst not quite remembering it properly. Ballard wouldn't realise that she wasn't remembering things properly until she got back to Voyager and had certain things she should remember, eg her human father, pointed out to her.
But in the three years as a Kobali she didn't find it odd that she couldn't remember her human father, or much of anything about her human life? Three years just feels too long to me for her not to realise these things, three weeks or three months would have felt much better.
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