Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Lost Threads

[ElimParra]

Well over the weekend I watched all of season 1 ... and was rather cool. G'Kar would be my favourite character so far from the show. But was impressed when I saw some of the names that were part of the writing staff. Might watch season 1 again, before moving on to season 2 sometime next week (when I can get it)

[Harvey]

Don't get too attached to those names in the writing staff. Outside of one script by Neil Gaiman in the final season (and two story by co-credits with Harlan Ellison that season as well), Straczynski wrote every episode of the series himself in seasons 3-5, along with most of the scripts in the second season, as well.

[Neroon]

Precisely, Alpha. In case anybody is interested, I've attached an episode guide, that includes among other things, the writers for each episode. I've pulled all of that information from "The Lurker's Guide", incidentally.

[Jan]

Nice list, Nerroon! I particularly like the inclusion of the directors.

Jan

[Neroon]

Jan wrote:

---

Nice list, Nerroon! I particularly like the inclusion of the directors.

Jan

Much appreciated, as it is indeed a labor love. One of several, actually.

Incidentally, the brief descriptions are lifted from Lurker's as well. They're concise yet contain enough information for someone to recall the episode. I figured, why reinvent the Starfury?

[Lindley]

Because the Starfury wasn't designed for HD?

[JoeD80]

Hirogen Alpha wrote:

---

The changeover from Sinclair to Sheridan is a long, and oft-disputed story.

What's weird is that the "dispute" is all from the outside. O'Hare and Straczynski were all fine with it. Just the other day I found yet another O'Hare interview (from about 1996 I believe) where he was talking about the challenges of working on stage vs. television and he says he likes them both and it's interesting to build episode-on-episode on a character vs. playing the same lines on stage every night and he says specifically about B5: "after 22 episodes, I knew I was done with the character" and in a 1997 interview from DragonCon he says "The Sinclair character had reached its pinnacle of definition."

Hirogen Alpha wrote:

---

The first episode of the second season is only okay--they were still working out the kinks with Sheridan and Warren Keffer (who is a tertiary character, in the end).

As for working out the kinks with Sheridan; interestingly enough, Sheridan's scenes for this episode were actually written and filmed after Bruce had been filmed in subsequent episodes. Filming for season 2 started mid-August, and the re-written scenes and re-filmed scenes plus some new scenes involving Sheridan for "Points of Departure" weren't done until mid-September, after several episodes had already been filmed. It was the only episode that involved re-shooting, and jms mentioned in the script books that it was done so that jms could first see how the character was going to fit in before expanding on the scenes in the first episode.

The reason Keffer didn't go right is because jms had another character in mind that he really wanted to do -- a 30 year-old Japanese fighter pilot. The network vetoed it, and told him they wanted "a han solo 25 year old" character -- so Keffer was born and jms didn't want to use him. The two episodes where he has a big presence (A Distant Star, GROPOS) were written by other writers.

Hirogen Alpha wrote:

---

Don't get too attached to those names in the writing staff.

Just a comment on terms: Larry DiTillio and Harlan Ellison were the only two on staff; the other writer's scripts were commissioned.

[ElimParra]

Lindley wrote:

---

Because the Starfury wasn't designed for HD?

Was HD around then?

Anyways I'm now in the process of watching season 2 for the second time, while I wait to get season 3.

[Harvey]

What's weird is that the "dispute" is all from the outside. O'Hare and Straczynski were all fine with it. Just the other day I found yet another O'Hare interview (from about 1996 I believe) where he was talking about the challenges of working on stage vs. television and he says he likes them both and it's interesting to build episode-on-episode on a character vs. playing the same lines on stage every night and he says specifically about B5: "after 22 episodes, I knew I was done with the character" and in a 1997 interview from DragonCon he says "The Sinclair character had reached its pinnacle of definition."

A slight correction. I wasn't using the term "dispute" to describe O'Hare's departure--by all accounts, unlike Claudia Christian's fuss, it was entirely amicable. I was using the term "dispute" to describe the exact reasons for O'Hare's departure. Even JMS has trouble explaining them, exactly, in the script books, his final conclusion is that the details will be only known to the people who were in the room when the decision was made.

It seems probable to me that (a) O'Hare wasn't keen on shooting a weekly television series, (b) the character's arc had proceeded much more rapidly than JMS had intended, resulting in his role mostly playing out by the end of the season, and (c) the studio wanting a more prominent actor playing a more traditional leading man in the role. But that's just speculation.

As for working out the kinks with Sheridan; interestingly enough, Sheridan's scenes for this episode were actually written and filmed after Bruce had been filmed in subsequent episodes. Filming for season 2 started mid-August, and the re-written scenes and re-filmed scenes plus some new scenes involving Sheridan for "Points of Departure" weren't done until mid-September, after several episodes had already been filmed. It was the only episode that involved re-shooting, and jms mentioned in the script books that it was done so that jms could first see how the character was going to fit in before expanding on the scenes in the first episode.

That's an interesting tidbit, and one I didn't remember. I still think some of his scenes in the episode are quite awkward, but it's been a while since I've seen "Points of Departure."

The reason Keffer didn't go right is because jms had another character in mind that he really wanted to do -- a 30 year-old Japanese fighter pilot. The network vetoed it, and told him they wanted "a han solo 25 year old" character -- so Keffer was born and jms didn't want to use him. The two episodes where he has a big presence (A Distant Star, GROPOS) were written by other writers.

I think he didn't even want to introduce Keffer until A Distant Star, but changed his mind (at the studio's insistence?) and introduced him in the opener instead. D.C. Fontana mentions having to re-write what would have been Keffer's introduction in her script because of changes made in the season two premiere. It IS a shame JMS couldn't have introduced his version of the character, though, because Keffer is pretty cookie cutter.

Just a comment on terms: Larry DiTillio and Harlan Ellison were the only two on staff; the other writer's scripts were commissioned.

Quite right. ElimParra used the term "writing staff" and it didn't dawn on me that most of those writers were freelancers, a point that's quite obvious in the "Other Voices" books. Thanks for the correction.

[Damask]

Near the end of season 2 and it's gone a bit Lord of the Rings in space (not in a bad way!). Interesting.

I'm starting to cringe anytime a character mentions an "old human saying" though.

[JoeD80]

Damask wrote:

---

I'm starting to cringe anytime a character mentions an "old human saying" though.

I don't think this happens too much (don't remember all the dialogue in my head), but remember it's an Earth station so the alien characters try to learn about Earth stuff.

[Pemmer Harge]

From All Alone in the Night:

Delenn: "Lennier, for the first time, I feel very much alone."
Lennier: "No. Never alone, Delenn. Never alone"

Damn that was heartwarming.

[Mal]

hey kiddos: just FYI, a first-time-through B5 is going on over in the SF&F forum here. these things are a thing of beauty

[tomalak301]

Mal wrote:

---

hey kiddos: just FYI, a first-time-through B5 is going on over in the SF&F forum here. these things are a thing of beauty

Thanks for linking to my thread. I've been debating putting something in here because this thread has been here for a while and I am trying to avoid spoilers. Still, as a Niner who is getting into B5, it's good to let fellow Niners know that as well.

[Kosh Naranek]

DS9 and B5 - two of my favorite shows. I love popping into tomalak301's thread.