Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

[AuntKate]

^^I had no idea that a healthy relationship required the exchange of underwear!

[kimc]

AuntKate wrote:

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^^I had no idea that a healthy relationship required the exchange of underwear!

Although I always thought the nice shirts were up for grabs.

[Guy Gardener]

This is why single men so rarely wash their clothes.

As if a decent and properly raised woman would hastily borrow a nice shirt (FOREVER!!!) if it had half a pizza adhered down the front (FOREVER!!!)? Of course the longer a man does this the more likely he'll sink to the bottom of the dating pool and find himself only being capable of attracting a mate who is not afraid nor cares if she is wearing some other buggers last four suppers on the front of a Van Halen tour souvenir sweatshirt from the early 90s, because water finds it's own level... Which in it's own right, does take the edge off a series of potential problems that usually crop up which will now be zero sum.

Surely this niche is just a natural evolution of how girls in highschool during the 50s used to brand themselves by wearing their sweethearts letterman jacket or class pin?

Because you are a brave social scientist as an experiment, try ordering your honey bunny to dare be a secret transvestite at work for just a day and see what happens. I assure you, any result, from disgust to acquiescense will be hilarious.

10 years ago, this was a Joey episode of Friends, are we truly afraid of being more culturally dynamic than a plot from Friends?

(I rewatched The Rocky Horror Picture Show the other night, can you tell?)

[kimc]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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Surely this niche is just a natural evolution of how girls in highschool during the 50s used to brand themselves by wearing their sweethearts letterman jacket or class pin?

And perhaps an element of guys liking to see women they're into wearing their shirts. I dated a guy who thought it was cute how the sleeves would hang down over my hands. It was like I was being claimed or something.

[Guy Gardener]

maybe it's just because brad pitt said it, but there was a line in Meet Joe Black which stuck with me.

If I married you, I'd want to give
you what you wanted, I know it's
old fashioned and all that, but
what's wrong with taking care of a
woman? She takes care of you.

Quid pro quo.

[Brit]

kimc wrote:

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Although I always thought the nice shirts were up for grabs.

You do realize that in much of the J/C fan fiction, one of Chakotay's quirks is that he doesn't wear underwear.

Brit

[exodus]

teya wrote:

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Thanks so much, both of you for explaining to this biracial woman that bigotry exists. I wouldn't have been aware.

My point was...

I didn't need to be told indirectly or directly that racism was wrong--even in 1968.

So I see this episode as a far-from-subtle example of television preaching.

Exactly.

Me personally, I have to wonder. If you don't recognize blanent messages of racism in a TV show, would you recognize them in real life or be just as oblivious?

[kimc]

Brit wrote:

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You do realize that in much of the J/C fan fiction, one of Chakotay's quirks is that he doesn't wear underwear.

Brit

I certainly do.

Anyway, as much fun as it is to discuss Chakotay with no underwear and nice shirts we should probably get back to topic.

[KimM]

Chakotay sans underwear is not the topic of this thread? dang.

[AuntKate]

exodus wrote:

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Me personally, I have to wonder. If you don't recognize blanent messages of racism in a TV show, would you recognize them in real life or be just as oblivious?

Remember that in 1968, cities were on fire because of racial tension. Rather than take such a volatile subject on directly, Star Trek addressed it indirectly. It only works if people recognize the connection, of course. Those who didn't recognize the negative results of discrimination in 1969 had to be living with their heads buried in the sand. You didn't need a TV show to illustrate it; the Nightly News did an excellent job.

[teya]

AuntKate wrote:

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Remember that in 1968, cities were on fire because of racial tension. Rather than take such a volatile subject on directly, Star Trek addressed it indirectly. It only works if people recognize the connection, of course. Those who didn't recognize the negative results of discrimination in 1969 had to be living with their heads buried in the sand. You didn't need a TV show to illustrate it; the Nightly News did an excellent job.

I think you're missing our point.

As *individuals*, both exodus and I found the episode preachy and obvious, not worth the lauds you're giving it. But, as an individual, I was already well aware in 1968 of how heinous discrimination was.

And yes, shockingly enough that's from personal experience. The day after Dr. King was shot, my school bus was stuck in the midst of a riot--imagine 22 elementary school kids down on the floor of the bus doing a "duck and cover" while the windows are shattering over their heads. And at night, my dad was out in the hood as a reporter, driving with Jackie Robinson who was in town for an event, and was trying to keep the peace.

So for me, the episode was--even on first viewing--not all that remarkable. And I daresay that when you watch it today, it comes off as dated and... yes, preachy.

[exodus]

AuntKate wrote:

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Remember that in 1968, cities were on fire because of racial tension. Rather than take such a volatile subject on directly, Star Trek addressed it indirectly. It only works if people recognize the connection, of course. Those who didn't recognize the negative results of discrimination in 1969 had to be living with their heads buried in the sand. You didn't need a TV show to illustrate it; the Nightly News did an excellent job.

As an African American male didn't require the nightly news to experance or be aware of such things, as a minority you live and deal with racism, bigorty and prejudice on a regular basis. I feel sorry for those that don't understand such things that happen in the world(..and issues like this often in front of their faces)and still require the nightly news to explain such things to them. This is why racism & prejudice still exist, it's because people choose to be blind of things happening right outside their own front door. Racism wasn't new in 1968 and it's not new not much different in 2009 either. That fact that some can be so unaware on a issue that predates them is very sad.

[kimc]

It think we've exhausted the original topic. Feel free to start a new thread on C/7 if you wish but it looks like we're done for now.