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Old July 22 2009, 04:21 AM   #466
firehawk12
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Keep in mind Harmonix just announced a program that allows anyone to put their music up for sale... which means your favourite niche band might be available for play in Rock Band eventually.
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Old July 22 2009, 07:08 AM   #467
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

There are a lot of small gameplay differences that have evolved between the two series. I find Rock Band 2 more enjoyable to play because I think Neversoft have gone too far in trying to make bass as difficult as lead guitar.
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Old July 22 2009, 08:38 AM   #468
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

The only thing about Rock Band 2 that feels 'off' are the damn HOPO chords. They make no logical sense. All they do is trick you into missing a note that you would've otherwise happily strummed. The adding notes to sustains in World Tour was a better idea. I like the open strum addition to the bass in theory, but I haven't played enough WT to truly develop a feel for it. There are lots of places where an open note would help lead guitar too. The Thunderstruck intro especially.

Unfortunately World Tour did little else right. The whole engine feels bad in general, the songs weren't great. I'm curious about GH: Metallica, Smash Hits, and GH5 but I'll probably wait until there are some cheap deals on them.

I'm largely committed to the Rock Band platform. I love the fact that I have 50+ songs from the original, 80+ songs from RB2, and just shy of 300 downloaded tracks all easily accessible from the same playlist without swapping discs. I have lots of GH3 DLC, and I had a lot more fun with that one than World Tour, but frankly I've just started buying old GH3 songs in Rock Band 2 so I don't have to swap out discs, especially with the Pepsi free DLC promotion. (free in that I was going to buy plenty of soda anyway, that is)

Oh, also, it's actually possible to calibrate RB2 decently for HDTV lag. Especially if you have the autocalibrate guitar controller. GH:WT has been completely impossible to get a satisfactory calibration for me.
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Old July 22 2009, 08:46 AM   #469
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

^Guitar Hero: Metallica is great if you like Metallica. A lot of hard work has been put in to it and it shows. Smash/Greatest Hits, not so much. The note charts just feel wrong even on my level (Medium).

A trailer has been released for Band Hero - the Guitar Hero game for young, good looking people who actually like Lily Allen.

This one is a pass for me. If I wanted to listen to some screeching misandrist harp on about how much she hates her ex-boyfriend I'd open a Facebook account.
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Old July 22 2009, 09:02 AM   #470
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

You can basically sum it all up by saying that Harmonix employs actual musicians who are also very talented. Hence Rock Band being more musically accurate.

Neversoft employs retards whom I doubt know how to hold a guitar properly.

As for the RB hardware, ya, the first edition stuff sucked. That's what happens when you lose Red Octane. But the new stuff is great, I love the wireless RockBand guitar, of all the other guitar controllers I've used, this one is the best IMO

Though I wish I could get the Warlock one, but I think that's still a PS3 exclusive and I don't have the time to convert it to a 360 one.
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Old July 22 2009, 09:02 AM   #471
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

You can basically sum it all up by saying that Harmonix employs actual musicians who are also very talented. Hence Rock Band being more musically accurate.

Neversoft employs retards whom I doubt know how to hold a guitar properly.

As for the RB hardware, ya, the first edition stuff sucked. That's what happens when you lose Red Octane. But the new stuff is great, I love the wireless RockBand guitar, of all the other guitar controllers I've used, this one is the best IMO

Though I wish I could get the Warlock one, but I think that's still a PS3 exclusive and I don't have the time to convert it to a 360 one.
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Old July 22 2009, 09:30 AM   #472
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
You can basically sum it all up by saying that Harmonix employs actual musicians who are also very talented. Hence Rock Band being more musically accurate.
On the other hand, Neversoft are a games company who know a thing or two about making a good game. Which possibly explains why Harmonix rigidly stick to their principle of making you play songs over and over and over and over again during the tour mode - yes, we know real bands don't just play songs once and never again but it gets boring quickly.

This is one thing I will always stick to - all songs should be unlocked and accessible at any difficulty for Quickplay with no save disabling cheat codes from the moment you first start the game.
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Old July 22 2009, 09:36 AM   #473
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Hermiod wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
You can basically sum it all up by saying that Harmonix employs actual musicians who are also very talented. Hence Rock Band being more musically accurate.
On the other hand, Neversoft are a games company who know a thing or two about making a good game. Which possibly explains why Harmonix rigidly stick to their principle of making you play songs over and over and over and over again during the tour mode - yes, we know real bands don't just play songs once and never again but it gets boring quickly.

This is one thing I will always stick to - all songs should be unlocked and accessible at any difficulty for Quickplay with no save disabling cheat codes from the moment you first start the game.
And I can dig what you're saying and I agree, Neversoft have a lot more experience making games, considering they make what as many versions of a franchise as possible until they're killed it? (see Tony Hawk)

But on a serious note, yes, they know more about gameplay, but, with a music game, the heart of your gameplay is the music and when the music is better, as is with RB, you have a superior game. Unless the other parts of the game are awful, which I don't think anyone could say that about RB.

What you've said about having to play the same stuff over and over again, I agree with you to a point, it does get tedious at times, but other times I enjoy it.

The best part in regard to the setlists is the integration of the DLC
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Old July 22 2009, 09:42 AM   #474
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

^I can definitely agree with that. I love the way new challenges appear depending on what DLC you've bought, for example.

It's a matter of taste, but I don't agree that the music itself is better in Rock Band. I've found some of their choices distinctly lacking. The representation of that music - the note charts, especially when the same song is available in both games, is generallly better though.

It's perhaps due to their desire to appeal to a wider audience, but Rock Band's definition of "rock" is often highly dubious.
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Old July 22 2009, 11:19 AM   #475
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Hermiod wrote: View Post

It's a matter of taste, but I don't agree that the music itself is better in Rock Band. I've found some of their choices distinctly lacking. The representation of that music - the note charts, especially when the same song is available in both games, is generallly better though.
Yes, talking about the charting and such, choices and selection of music are always going to comedown to personal preference.

I never picked up a GH game after 3, but I will pop that back in every now and than just to play certain songs.

I, along with you, await the day when we can have our dream playlists available to us.
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Old July 22 2009, 11:15 PM   #476
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Hermiod wrote: View Post
^Guitar Hero: Metallica is great if you like Metallica. A lot of hard work has been put in to it and it shows. Smash/Greatest Hits, not so much. The note charts just feel wrong even on my level (Medium).
I sort of like Metallica. Some of the old stuff is pretty good, but frankly I've always been a Megadeth guy. GH: Metallica might be nice though, Metallica tracks would be a nice slowing of pace compared to the blistering Megadeth Peace Sells album DLC in Rock Band
I don't know if there's much of a correlation between how 'good' a medium chart is and how good an 'expert' chart is. To me, all the Medium charts are going to be hilariously bad, just because there are so many notes in the song that you skip playing. I haven't looked into Smash Hits too much, but I would have guessed that since a lot of the songs are from HMX developed games, that the note charts would ape the originals as much as possible.


JonathonWally wrote: View Post
You can basically sum it all up by saying that Harmonix employs actual musicians who are also very talented. Hence Rock Band being more musically accurate.
I don't know about that. The HMX people come off as pretentious Boston assholes to me. It's not like the charts are all that 'musically accurate' to begin with. Frankly there is a lot of stuff you can do on a guitar that just doesn't translate well into a plastic one string guitar with five fret buttons. It's that gray area that leads to a lot of the more major differences in charts, and it really becomes a question of how to make it fun, more than it is how to make it musically accurate.

An example that comes to mind are BYOB and Black Sunshine. In Rock Band for Black Sunshine they charted a part as just single sustained notes whereas in GH3 they put it as a crazy trill. Which one is 'more accurate'? It's hard to say... the guitarist isn't playing using two different frets in real life. I'm not sure what he's doing, whammy, vibrato(? is that even the right term, I'm not much of a musician), but he's doing more than just playing a note and sustaining it.

What's funny is that BYOB is exactly the opposite, there's a part where Neversoft just charted it as a single sustain whereas Rock Band put in extra notes where the guitarist is bending the note. It's the exact same charting issue, and they managed to take contradictory and opposite approaches on both of them!

To me it would be best to put in the extra notes, as it makes the game more fun and gives you more to do. Holding a sustained note for multiple seconds when there are obvious pitch changes isn't much fun on expert, so I would take the 'Trill' approach every time.

Neversoft employs retards whom I doubt know how to hold a guitar properly.

As for the RB hardware, ya, the first edition stuff sucked. That's what happens when you lose Red Octane. But the new stuff is great, I love the wireless RockBand guitar, of all the other guitar controllers I've used, this one is the best IMO
No chance. The World Tour controller, and really all the Red Octane controllers still blow it away. The non-clicky strum bar is a huge problem for keeping rhythm for one. More importantly, and maybe it's just my controller, but I can hold the fret button softly enough where while they're still depressed, they don't register as being held down. It's a pretty huge problem when you're trying to nail really fast sections as you want to press each note as lightly as possible to maximize your speed. So I guess it's the same issue with both the strummer and the frets. There's incomplete/inaccurate tactile feedback on whether you've actually triggered them or not.

Hermiod wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
You can basically sum it all up by saying that Harmonix employs actual musicians who are also very talented. Hence Rock Band being more musically accurate.
On the other hand, Neversoft are a games company who know a thing or two about making a good game. Which possibly explains why Harmonix rigidly stick to their principle of making you play songs over and over and over and over again during the tour mode - yes, we know real bands don't just play songs once and never again but it gets boring quickly.

This is one thing I will always stick to - all songs should be unlocked and accessible at any difficulty for Quickplay with no save disabling cheat codes from the moment you first start the game.
I'd be OK with all songs being available from the get-go, but that does put a damper on the 'game' aspect. The way I unlocked my RB2 songs was to go through all the Guitar challenges in order. That way you unlock stuff without having to repeat songs over and over again. The whole 'challenges' and 'world tour' did nothing for me. These days I play exclusively in quickplay, just because dealing with all the world tour shit is pointless.

Hermiod wrote: View Post
^I can definitely agree with that. I love the way new challenges appear depending on what DLC you've bought, for example.
To me it's useless, how is it any better than just playing the songs in Quickplay? I think they've really failed at putting a compelling meta game on top of the play a song until you've kicked it's ass kind of gameplay.
It's a matter of taste, but I don't agree that the music itself is better in Rock Band. I've found some of their choices distinctly lacking. The representation of that music - the note charts, especially when the same song is available in both games, is generallly better though.

It's perhaps due to their desire to appeal to a wider audience, but Rock Band's definition of "rock" is often highly dubious.
The GH:WT setlist was atrocious in my opinion. If nothing else, Rock Band has what, 600 tracks available as DLC? You should be able to put together a playlist of your definition of "Rock" together that puts the stuff that ships with either game to shame!
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Old July 23 2009, 12:10 AM   #477
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Yoda wrote: View Post
The only thing about Rock Band 2 that feels 'off' are the damn HOPO chords. They make no logical sense. All they do is trick you into missing a note that you would've otherwise happily strummed. The adding notes to sustains in World Tour was a better idea. I like the open strum addition to the bass in theory, but I haven't played enough WT to truly develop a feel for it. There are lots of places where an open note would help lead guitar too. The Thunderstruck intro especially.

Unfortunately World Tour did little else right. The whole engine feels bad in general, the songs weren't great. I'm curious about GH: Metallica, Smash Hits, and GH5 but I'll probably wait until there are some cheap deals on them.

I'm largely committed to the Rock Band platform. I love the fact that I have 50+ songs from the original, 80+ songs from RB2, and just shy of 300 downloaded tracks all easily accessible from the same playlist without swapping discs. I have lots of GH3 DLC, and I had a lot more fun with that one than World Tour, but frankly I've just started buying old GH3 songs in Rock Band 2 so I don't have to swap out discs, especially with the Pepsi free DLC promotion. (free in that I was going to buy plenty of soda anyway, that is)

Oh, also, it's actually possible to calibrate RB2 decently for HDTV lag. Especially if you have the autocalibrate guitar controller. GH:WT has been completely impossible to get a satisfactory calibration for me.

I actually got pretty bored of GH:WT. By the second day, I already moved on to another game.

I just didn't find it very fun for some reason. I have small hands so I felt that the buttons were a tad too far apart for me and not all of the songs I liked.
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Old July 23 2009, 07:06 AM   #478
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Yoda wrote: View Post
I sort of like Metallica. Some of the old stuff is pretty good, but frankly I've always been a Megadeth guy. GH: Metallica might be nice though, Metallica tracks would be a nice slowing of pace compared to the blistering Megadeth Peace Sells album DLC in Rock Band
I don't know if there's much of a correlation between how 'good' a medium chart is and how good an 'expert' chart is. To me, all the Medium charts are going to be hilariously bad, just because there are so many notes in the song that you skip playing. I haven't looked into Smash Hits too much, but I would have guessed that since a lot of the songs are from HMX developed games, that the note charts would ape the originals as much as possible.
They don't. Beenox Studios recharted everything and have drawn a lot of complaints for doing so - right down to the five fret chord of doom on Raining Blood.

I don't know about the hard and expert charts as I don't play at that level. There was a segment on the X Play podcast talking about Smash/Greatest Hits with someone who does play on Expert and she did say it felt wrong.

Little mistakes like having star power sections right at the end of a song where there's no chance to use them.

I'd be OK with all songs being available from the get-go, but that does put a damper on the 'game' aspect. The way I unlocked my RB2 songs was to go through all the Guitar challenges in order. That way you unlock stuff without having to repeat songs over and over again. The whole 'challenges' and 'world tour' did nothing for me. These days I play exclusively in quickplay, just because dealing with all the world tour shit is pointless.
I did unlock all the songs on RB2 by just playing the decades based challenges as a previous thread on the game here (it might have been this one actually!) suggested.

I have a slightly unusual philosophy when it comes to games, I admit. I don't believe in locked content, I think a player should be able to choose to play whatever level, map, mission, song, match whatever he or she wants right from the first time they load the game. No locked songs, cars, characters, costumes, weapons anything. And if you really must tack artificial goals like achievements or trophies on to games then they must still be available no matter what the player does.

It's their game, they paid for it, why shouldn't they be able to do what they want with it ?

If there's a part of the game the player doesn't think is fun or it's too hard, let them skip it.

The GH:WT setlist was atrocious in my opinion. If nothing else, Rock Band has what, 600 tracks available as DLC? You should be able to put together a playlist of your definition of "Rock" together that puts the stuff that ships with either game to shame!
I've got both games, and I've bought approximately 30+ tracks for RB and RB2. I do find that Rock Band's DLC is not as adventurous as it could be, though.
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Old July 23 2009, 10:40 AM   #479
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

Yoda wrote: View Post
An example that comes to mind are BYOB and Black Sunshine. In Rock Band for Black Sunshine they charted a part as just single sustained notes whereas in GH3 they put it as a crazy trill. Which one is 'more accurate'? It's hard to say... the guitarist isn't playing using two different frets in real life. I'm not sure what he's doing, whammy, vibrato(? is that even the right term, I'm not much of a musician), but he's doing more than just playing a note and sustaining it.

.
It's bending octave.

|E-----------------------
|B----------15----------
|G----------12------------
|D-----------------------
|A-----------------------
|E-----------------------

It's 5:30am, let's hope I'm explaining this right.

Those are the strings on a guitar, Top E is the highest string, bottom E is the Low note string on a guitar.

The numbers on the strings represent which fret to hold down.

In this chart (which is called Tablature) you're holding down the 12th fret on the G string with one finger and letting it ring (sustain) while holding down the 15th fret on the B string, but bending it to raise the pitch, so it's almost an octave, but not quite. Wiggle the 15th note a bit to play with the pitch.

All the time while strumming at whatever beat you want, letting those 2 notes ring out (more or less Legato)

Sometimes to change it up, instead of bending the B string, you could tap at all the notes in the bend while letting the G string ring out the entire time.

That takes more skill, either way is right, he's using delay, chorus and reverb effects to create his sound on that.

And that is your guitar lesson for tonight.
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Old July 23 2009, 06:25 PM   #480
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Re: The unofficial Rock Band thread.

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
Yoda wrote: View Post
An example that comes to mind are BYOB and Black Sunshine. In Rock Band for Black Sunshine they charted a part as just single sustained notes whereas in GH3 they put it as a crazy trill. Which one is 'more accurate'? It's hard to say... the guitarist isn't playing using two different frets in real life. I'm not sure what he's doing, whammy, vibrato(? is that even the right term, I'm not much of a musician), but he's doing more than just playing a note and sustaining it.

.
It's bending octave.

|E-----------------------
|B----------15----------
|G----------12------------
|D-----------------------
|A-----------------------
|E-----------------------

It's 5:30am, let's hope I'm explaining this right.

Those are the strings on a guitar, Top E is the highest string, bottom E is the Low note string on a guitar.

The numbers on the strings represent which fret to hold down.

In this chart (which is called Tablature) you're holding down the 12th fret on the G string with one finger and letting it ring (sustain) while holding down the 15th fret on the B string, but bending it to raise the pitch, so it's almost an octave, but not quite. Wiggle the 15th note a bit to play with the pitch.

All the time while strumming at whatever beat you want, letting those 2 notes ring out (more or less Legato)

Sometimes to change it up, instead of bending the B string, you could tap at all the notes in the bend while letting the G string ring out the entire time.

That takes more skill, either way is right, he's using delay, chorus and reverb effects to create his sound on that.

And that is your guitar lesson for tonight.
so, how would you personally chart that to a one string, five fret guitar where you can't bend the string?
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