UFP Anthem

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

---

If you really think that all pride automatically becomes chauvinism/Nazism...

Godwin'd!

[Sci]

Rush Limborg wrote:

---

^My $0.02:

I think Sisko explained this issue pretty well in "The Maquis, Part I", with his "Saint in Paradise" speach....

The "Washington Elitists" (or, as I'm sure they'd say in the future, the Frisco Elitists)

The Federation capital city is Paris, not San Francisco. As Arlington, Virginia, houses the Pentagon a relatively small distance away from Washington, D.C., so does San Francisco house Starfleet Headquarters a relatively small distance away from Paris.

have never tasted the hard life. They're so used to Earth being a paradise, that they basically have an overdeveloped sense of tranquility. It's disgusting.

It's made'm naive...and sloppy!

Unlikely. Most of the senior defense advisors to the Federation President would have been Starfleet admirals who worked in the field and knew what the real galaxy was like.

The Federation simply has a more pacifistic value system than yours, even given bitter experience. Probably because the UFP is made up of cultures that have experienced war at its worst and know that almost anything else is preferable.

[Rush Limborg]

The Federation capital city is Paris, not San Francisco. As Arlington, Virginia, houses the Pentagon a relatively small distance away from Washington, D.C., so does San Francisco house Starfleet Headquarters a relatively small distance away from Paris.

I was referring to the Federation Council Building, as per Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

Unlikely. Most of the senior defense advisors to the Federation President would have been Starfleet admirals who worked in the field and knew what the real galaxy was like.

Well, I suppose it depends on the president...doesn't it?

Wow. That you actually took it seriously, the idea I suggested in jest that patriotism--that is, pride in your country--is automatically dangerous...it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. If you really think that all pride automatically becomes chauvinism/Nazism...all I can say is...wow. That really is unfortunate if you yourself are so incapable of drawing the line that you don't believe anyone else can.

Sadly, Nerys, that mindset is all too common....

Strictly speaking, patriotism is "love and devotion to one's country". Jingoism, the belief in "my country, right or wrong", is simply a corruption of the noble idea of patriotism.

Natima Lang, for example, is a true patriot. Her love and devotion to Cardassia is what fills her with a desire to change it for the better, because she knows that the millitaristic path her world has taken will in the end only lead to destruction. (For these reasons, Legate Ghemor--and eventually, Legate Damar--are also true patriots.)

Gul Dukat, however, is a jingoist. He used his "love" for his homeland to justify sanctioning of atrocities and promotion of tyranny in the name of Cardassia.

[Deranged Nasat]

Rush Limborg wrote:

---

Natima Lang, for example, is a true patriot. Her love and devotion to Cardassia is what fills her with a desire to change it for the better, because she knows that the millitaristic path her world has taken will in the end only lead to destruction. (For these reasons, Legate Ghemor--and eventually, Legate Damar--are also true patriots.)

Gul Dukat, however, is a jingoist. He used his "love" for his homeland to justify sanctioning of atrocities and promotion of tyranny in the name of Cardassia.

True, and I agree with all your points save one (and it's minor). I would argue that Dukat was not even a jingoist. He was a Dukat-ist. He always put Dukat before Cardassia. He was, ultimately, selfish, which is as far from the Cardassian ethic as you can get. I would argue he didn't even truly care about Cardassia at all- the "good" of Cardassia was just the excuse (the first person to believe Dukat's lies was always Dukat himself). In "What You Leave Behind", Winn speaks of "the invasion of Cardassia" and Dukat doesn't even blink. Okay, he had fully descended into madness by then, but even prior to this, his own desires always came first. Terok Nor was his private castle in the sky where he could essentially rape the Bajoran women he found attractive and have his ego stroked. It was not the prosperity of Cardassia he was concerned with. During the Dominion War, his comments to Weyoun show that it is reclaiming HIS position that motivates him, again, not the good of Cardassia. Maybe during season four, with the Klingon invasion, he had the opportunity to grow and change and actually put Cardassia first- but he threw it away by selling his nation out to the Dominion.

[Rush Limborg]

^As ye say, lad.

[Sci]

Rush Limborg wrote:

---

I was referring to the Federation Council Building, as per Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

Pardon me -- I forgot that not everyone reads the novels. Yeah, the Federation Council building seemed to be established as being in San Fran in ST4. But, really, that was such a lame-ass building that I tend to whole-heartedly embrace the retcon made in the novel Articles of the Federation, where the Federation Council is established to normally meet on the first floor of the Palais de la Concorde in Paris, with the President's office being on the top floor. (We can assume that the Federation Council building in San Fran is a regular alternate meeting site -- maybe the Palais was undergoing renovation!)

[Rush Limborg]

Or...maybe the 'Frisco building was the old, TOS-era HQ for the Council, but someone afterwords thought it would be better just to (as you've said) rennovate the Palais ground floor--make it bigger--and hold the Council there....

[Sci]

Rush Limborg wrote:

---

Or...maybe the 'Frisco building was the old, TOS-era HQ for the Council, but someone afterwords thought it would be better just to (as you've said) rennovate the Palais ground floor--make it bigger--and hold the Council there....

Articles of the Federation referred to the Federation Council Chamber in the Palais as having been used by the Council as early as the 22nd Century, so I always presumed the 'Frisco building was the one they used before the Palais finished construction and that they used afterwards as an alternate meeting site.

[Rush Limborg]

^Hmm....

Fascinating....

[bones451]

Hi evry body you know it actually gos like this.-

"Among the stars
We all join hands
Brothers in harmony
We take a stand
Different worlds diverse tons
We join in one song
Peace bolstered by u___nity
We shall be strong
Space faring se___ntients we lend aid
To all who urn for peace were air they may
Diplomacy is our creed our course is set
United Federation of planets!"

[bones451]

Hi evry body you know it actually gos like this.-

"Among the stars
We all join hands
Brothers in harmony
We take a stand
Different worlds diverse tons
We join in one song
Peace bolstered by u___nity
We shall be strong
Space faring se___ntients we lend aid
To all who urn for peace were air they may
Diplomacy is our creed our course is set
United Federation of planets!"

[Count Zero]

I'm pretty sure the anthem has words. I know there are anthems without them but I think the Federation which is founded on certain principles would want to incorporate them in the anthem for everyone to identify with.
I wouldn't worry so much about translation, after all, the International exists in a lot of different languages, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

I've also written words for the first verse, which proved a bit more difficult than anticipated. Granted, it's not very easy to sing but I tested it, and it's possible. I have ideas about a second and third verse, too. But anyway, here's the first:

Come, gentlebeings, galaxywide,
from our dark and troubled past emerge to the light,
make a dream of old become reality,
friend and old foe in
a federation of the free.

Citizens of the universe we are,
bound to each other all through the stars.
Our nations might be as different as night and day.
Diversity is our friend
but united we stand.

[Gaith]

One vote here for making The Internationale the Federation anthem, with appropriately intergalactic lyrics.

[Sci]

Gaith wrote:

---

One vote here for making The Internationale the Federation anthem, with appropriately intergalactic lyrics.

A song glorifying a violent rebellion against liberal democracy in favor of an ill-defined political movement that has inevitably led to a small elite monopolizing resources and oppressing the masses is hardly the sort of thing the Federation would use to represent itself.

Besides, we've already heard the Federation Anthem. It sounds nothing like "The Internationale."

[Rush Limborg]

Hey, folks, FWIW, I've finally taken the liberty of writing some lyrics myself, for the first verse. I tried to emphasize pacing as well as meter. And of course, the intent is to stir patriotism within the hearts of the citizens of the nation, as any anthem should:

Hear, all ye peoples, far and wide,
Rise with integrity, honor, and pride,
Stand for this Empire of Liberty,
This One and United Federation!

BTW, here's a YouTube of the full anthem with the annoying applause edited out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QpFTmdK7nQ