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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 16 2009, 05:50 PM   #2161
TheGodBen
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

JustKate wrote: View Post
^ Are all those lines successive or nearly so?
They're not successive, but I think it proves my point that you couldn't tell that. You can take any one of those lines and throw them into the scene at any point and it doesn't affect anything, it is just a random line thrown into the script in order to give the viewer a sense of danger. The problem is that I've heard all these lines so many times in so many episodes that they don't induce a sense of danger, they make the whole thing seem routine.

I don't mean to criticise only Voyager for this because TNG and DS9 had this sort of thing as well, but around about season 3 or 4 Voyager started to become more action-y so the problem is more noticable on Voyager.
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Old July 17 2009, 01:00 AM   #2162
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

We have a double header tonight!


One Small Step (**½)

Isn't it amazing how the the ship from 2028 didn't have artificial gravity when the DY-100 class ships had such technology in 1996?

Today I spent some time on this site watching the "live" recreation of the Apollo 11 launch, so it is fitting that today's Voyager episode was a tribute to pioneer astronauts. If there is one thing which rescued this episode for me it was the fact that the people writing it were clearly trying to give a sincere tribute to those people risking their lives to further the cause of space exploration.

The big problem I have with this episode is that it should have been a Chakotay episode rather than a Seven episode, here we see Chakotay coming into contact with one of his heroes and we really don't get a proper conclusion to that because the episode switches focus to Seven. Actually, the episode really should have focused on Paris when you consider that he is the guy who displayed interest in the early Mars missions in at least one previous episode, but here he is just treated as the pilot, he has a severe case of the Mayweathers going on.


The Voyager Conspiracy (*½)

I can just about buy into the idea that Seven's brain overloads and she starts coming up with insane conspiracy theories, but there is no way in hell that I could possibly buy into the idea that Janeway and Chakotay buy into them with no supporting evidence and abandon everything they know about one another. All this episode does is make Janeway and Chakotay look like utter fools, but if anybody knows how to contact them I have a subspace bridge for sale...

And what about the evidence that Seven discovered? What about the Cardassian ship which just disappeared? What about the tractor beam during the explosion of the Caretaker array? Where did the Tetrion reactor that Tash used on his slingshot come from? In order to make Seven's position have any form of validity the episode creates these conundrums and then fails to explain any of them.
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Old July 17 2009, 01:40 AM   #2163
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'd give One Small Step 3 stars. It's good but not great. I don't mind that the episode focused on Seven. My problem was with Chakotay. I don't find him interesting especially not here. I also didn't really buy his bone-headed move to stay in the anomaly leading to the jeopardy for the Delta Flyer crew. And if I remember correctly this was the first out-of-the-blue mention of his interest in anthropology.

When you strip away a lot of the stuff in the present you have some decent not great moments for the crew in the flashbacks but there are quite a few moments that are slow and not very compelling.

Voyager Conspiracy gets 2.5 stars. I've mentioned dozens of times that VOY had a bad habit of setting up interesting or intriguing mysteries then ruining it with a lacklustre payoff or revelation. That bad habit is what ruins this episode. Instead of some interesting conspiracy that ties together all these disparate mysteries it turns out to be a bunch of garbled information being processed through an overly taxed cortex belonging to Seven. That was such an easy uninspired way to pull everything together--LOST this isn't. It is essentially "it all happened in my head" type episode which I really don't care for.

But really it is interesting up until what is really going on is revealed. So unlike an episode or series where you can enjoy going back armed with new revelations and appreciate the episode in a new context with this information, I can't rewatch it knowing none of that set-up goes anywhere fruitful--all the interesting mysteries exist in a vacuum.

I also didn't buy all the distrust between Janeway and Chakotay.
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Old July 17 2009, 06:57 AM   #2164
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I agree with GodBen on OSS - it should have been Chakotay episode without a doubt. But I would give it ***.

The Voyager Consipracy - "sillyish" episode, but entertaining and rewatchable. The distrust between J/C was a little unbelievable, though funny. Overall I like the episode, so I would give it ***½.
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Old July 17 2009, 02:58 PM   #2165
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I find that technobabble is at its worst when it's used as a deus ex machina to get the ship out of danger, i.e. Seven's nanoprobes. The examples GodBen lists are good examples of routine danger - lines that we hear any time Voyager/Enterprise/Defiant etc. are in trouble. It's a problem not just limited to Voyager - it was littered throughout modern Trek, and I say that as a huge TNG and DS9 fan.

I always laugh when sparks fly across the bridge when shields are still at 47% or what have you. They can't be very effective shields if sparks and smoke are everywhere, and the crew are flung around the bridge like ants.

Anyway, the episodes. I remember when I first watched One Small Step years ago and thought how cheesy it was for Seven to suddenly have an idol. I also remember how bitter I felt when what had already been a perfectly nice Chakotay episode was hijackaed by her. My opinion of the show changed greatly upon rewatching it though - it's definately one of those shows that can be seen as good in context of Voyager's hit and miss history. It's nice for the crew to be so in awe and respectful of astronauts of their past, and I genuinely got caught up in the emotion of it all. Seven's little nod to Kelley at the end was such a nice touch. The graviton ellipse was pretty nifty-looking also. 4/5

The Voyager Conspiracy was sort of interesting at first when Seven's first conspiracy talk with Janeway was going on. Of course, there is no real conspiracy - this is Voyager! There is a tractor beam somewhere amongst the explosion of the Caretaker array, yet this is sidestepped in a confusing mess of stardate-babble. It was verging on a clip show at one point, I'm sure! The one funny bit, if unrealistic, was Janeway and Chakotay confronting each other.

Confusing at the end was Janeway somehow spouting off all those stardates.Sure, I understand poor souped-up Seven having them all downloaded into her head, but why would Janeway remember them all? Must be all that coffee. 2/5
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Old July 17 2009, 04:38 PM   #2166
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
And if I remember correctly this was the first out-of-the-blue mention of his interest in anthropology.
No, it wasn't, it had been there all the way since season one.
I found both episodes kind of enjoyable, more so "One Small Step". I totally agree that Janeway and Chakotay look like utter idiots in "The Voyager Conspiracy". I also think that "The Voyager Conspiracy" is the episode that dates Kes and Neelix meeting to an undeniably pedophilic time.
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Old July 18 2009, 12:02 AM   #2167
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Pathfinder (***½)

I know that there's some out there who dislike Barclay and I can understand why, I personally like him but consider him to be a character of diminishing returns. His first few episodes on TNG were good, but by Genesis his shtick was wearing thin. Projections was good partly because it wasn't really Barclay, but in Pathfinder it is a Barclay who has suffered a relapse and is even more Barclay-esque than he was in Hollow Pursuits. For that reason I found Barclay a little annoying to watch in this episode. The most fun is to be had when Barclay is acting at his least Barclay-esque in the Voyager holo-program (although I do find it amusing that even in Barclay's imagination of Voyager Lt Carey is a non-entity in Engineering ).

Some minor quibbles include Troi who feels like a gratuitous addition in an episode which is already in danger of falling into that category on its own. As to how Barclay knows where Voyager is considering the ship jumped 30,000 light-years since they last contacted Starfleet... well, I'm sure everybody realised that on their own.

By the way, did anyone else laugh at the extras slowing walking to the turbolift on the bridge when they're only 15 seconds away from a warp core breach? Or how they started walking a little faster around the five second mark?


Okay everyone, that's the end of Voyager! I'll post a recap of the final season over the weekend and then I'll post some thoughts on the series as a whole, but that's it for the episode reviews. I hope you'll join me for my revisit of Enterprise which I'll be starting in a few days, so keep a look out for that in the Enterprise forum.

It's been fun.
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Old July 18 2009, 12:07 AM   #2168
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Wait, what about episodes like Memorial and Blink of an Eye. Those two are my favorite episodes of Season 6 and I was looking forward to your thoughts on them. Why are you quitting?
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Old July 18 2009, 06:37 AM   #2169
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Aww. This thread has come to an end already? And because of Enterprise? Bummer.

This board is not same without this, but I guess all things must come to an end sometimes. Thanks for the reviews and debates, GB.
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Old July 18 2009, 02:33 PM   #2170
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Wait, what about episodes like Memorial and Blink of an Eye. Those two are my favorite episodes of Season 6 and I was looking forward to your thoughts on them. Why are you quitting?
I'm not quitting, the show ended. I know it's a little odd for the show to have ended its run 10 episodes into its sixth season, but there is no episode after Pathfinder.

There is no episode after Pathfinder!
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Old July 18 2009, 02:58 PM   #2171
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

WHAT? You're quitting? DON'T QUIT, not even to review Enterprise.
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Old July 18 2009, 04:44 PM   #2172
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
I'm not quitting, the show ended. I know it's a little odd for the show to have ended its run 10 episodes into its sixth season, but there is no episode after Pathfinder.

There is no episode after Pathfinder!


Hope to see you continue this in a few months then, when they do decide to continue it over there. That's if I'm still bothering with BBS without this most entertaining of threads!

Virgin did this to me at the end of season 5 a few months back, so I bought 6 and 7. Don't suppose I can tempt you to do that if you're truly a 'hater'?? shame you don't live nearer I'd lend you them and force you to continue
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Old July 18 2009, 04:57 PM   #2173
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I have the DVDs, I borrow them one season at a time, but there is no episode 11 in season 6. Pathfinder was the final episode, they get in contact with Earth and they celebrate. The End.

THE END!
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Old July 18 2009, 05:00 PM   #2174
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
I'm not quitting, the show ended. I know it's a little odd for the show to have ended its run 10 episodes into its sixth season, but there is no episode after Pathfinder.

There is no episode after Pathfinder!
Aww come on, Fair Haven is my favourite episode of Trek evah!!
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Old July 18 2009, 05:53 PM   #2175
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

There are still many good episodes, like the one were the Doc possesses Seven, the one were he joins a hologram-guerilla, the one were he gets kidnapped by an aristocratic society to cure their supremos, and the one were he writes a holonovel. As well as lots of bad episodes you can flame to show you truly are a hater. Besides, if you don't finish the show, we will miss your awesome season-graphics for seasons 6 and 7.

Also, stopping the thread would be considered threacherous by the Obsidian Order, so I suggest you watch "Chain of Command", "Tribunal", and "The Die is Cast" to decide whether it would really be wise.
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