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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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View Poll Results: What should the UFP do when the Klingon Empire invades Cardassia
Intervene militarily to stop the invasion, even at the cost of the Federation-Klingon alliance 13 56.52%
Not intervene. Allow the Klingons to conquer Cardassia. 8 34.78%
other (please describe below) 2 8.70%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 16 2009, 10:05 AM   #1
Captrek
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WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

In the episode they chose option #1. Did they make the right call?
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Old July 16 2009, 01:36 PM   #2
Anwar
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

They used false pretenses to engage in mere military expansionism against another sovereign state, one that had undergone a revolution that would have made them more open to diplomacy with the Feds instead of wanton death and violence. No, they weren't wrong.

That the Klingons continued after the Feds proved their accusations wrong, and went so far as to abandon the peace treaty just showed how easily manipulated Gowron was by Martok, not that the Feds were bad.
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Old July 16 2009, 05:27 PM   #3
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

The Federation did just a good a job at proving the Klingon's accusations wrong as they did proving the Martok was a Changeling in that episode. I wouldn't be surprised if the Klingons were right about Changeling infiltration into the Detapa Council. Though the truth didn't matter, all that mattered was that the Founders wanted to sow as much chaos in the Alpha Quadrant as possible before they launched their invasion proper.
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Old July 17 2009, 12:36 AM   #4
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

I'm sure you know what I say as a loyal citizen of Cardassia: what the Federation did was absolutely wrong. Yes, they backed Cardassia...TO A POINT. They fought for a time, until they quit caring, when what they should have done was punished the Klingons to ensure that they could never strike at us again. No--instead they were awfully quick to patch it up and act like nothing ever happened. They fight until it no longer serves them--whereas if they had true principle they would fight until the CAUSE was served.

The behavior of their so-called "allies" was unconscionable, and proved the Federation to be utter hypocrites--they claim to value such things as "principle" and "freedom", but in the end they are just as political as Romulans, preferring the relationships they think are politically and militarily expedient over the commitments that would have come with their principles should they have actually adhered to them.
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Old July 17 2009, 12:47 AM   #5
Gary Mitchell
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

captrek wrote: View Post
In the episode they chose option #1. Did they make the right call?
I don't remember the UFP intervening militarily. I just remember Sisko helping to evacuate the Detapa Council.

From Memory Alpha: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon-Cardassian_War
Sisko urged Martok to call off the attack and informed him that the Federation will not support an unprovoked attack. Martok paid his warning no heed, and shortly after commenced the invasion. The Federation Council quickly condemned the invasion, and in response an enraged Gowron withdrew from the Khitomer Accords, ending the alliance between the Klingon Empire and the Federation.
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Old July 17 2009, 01:00 AM   #6
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

The Founders had them in a tight spot. Let the Klingons invade - Cardassians become bitter towards their Federation allies. Put the foot down and defend Cardassia... the Klingons could very well have attacked the Federation -which would have been a far more chaotic and bloody conflict than the Klingon-Cardassian curbstomp. It was morally questionable - I don't think the Federation made the right choice. There was no right choice. The board was set and the only way out was to fight.
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Old July 17 2009, 01:47 AM   #7
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

My problem comes with the Klingons NOT being a reforming power by any means (if anything they were decaying with corruption, being so entrenched in their system) and yet somehow still being Federation allies despite the fact that this WHOLE time they've been conquering, pillaging, and generally gone a'viking like those dudes in a Capital One ad.

(My opinion of Klingons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-V9DVAPnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhomaIqoiL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umo_R...5E0EB7&index=1 )

Yet the Cardassians were actually taking real steps to FIX and CHANGE things in a better direction. If the Federation is so big on democracy and freedom--the choice should've been obvious. But instead they went with the unconscionable "ally."
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Old July 17 2009, 01:51 AM   #8
Thor Damar
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

^ Love those ads. (why are the vikings Brits with northern English accents? I think there is some historical Irony at work here).
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Old July 17 2009, 01:52 AM   #9
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

I could never have told you the region of their accents...but that IS quite funny now that you point it out, considering where the invasions occurred...
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Old July 17 2009, 01:56 AM   #10
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
I could never have told you the region of their accents...but that IS quite funny now that you point it out, considering where the invasions occurred...

Indeed, it certainly gave me cause for a chuckle or two.
The last one about banking in the dark ages was almost pythonesq, in it's own way.

Also, as we're talking about comedy and accents, I though that I should share this great piece of Monty Python with you all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JK5kChbRw
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Old July 17 2009, 02:03 AM   #11
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
My problem comes with the Klingons NOT being a reforming power by any means (if anything they were decaying with corruption, being so entrenched in their system) and yet somehow still being Federation allies despite the fact that this WHOLE time they've been conquering, pillaging, and generally gone a'viking like those dudes in a Capital One ad.

(My opinion of Klingons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-V9DVAPnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhomaIqoiL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umo_R...5E0EB7&index=1 )

Yet the Cardassians were actually taking real steps to FIX and CHANGE things in a better direction. If the Federation is so big on democracy and freedom--the choice should've been obvious. But instead they went with the unconscionable "ally."
Indeed. I'd rather trust the Cardassians over the Klingons. The Klingons are unpredictable, unstable and difficult to work with. The Cardassians on the other hand, are cooler minds overall - and despite their ideological differences to the Federation - would make more ideal partners.

The Klingons and Federation seem to me to be accidental allies - borne more out of happenstance than intent on the Federation's part. Indeed, were it not for the Praxis detonation and the Battle of Narendra, the Klingons would most likely not be allies with the Federation. The Federation saw an oppurtunity to end their interstellar Cold War and in their giddy, idealistic enthusiasm, did not stop to think about just how wild and unstable the Klingon Empire is.
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Old July 17 2009, 02:15 AM   #12
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

Anwar wrote: View Post
They used false pretenses to engage in mere military expansionism against another sovereign state, one that had undergone a revolution that would have made them more open to diplomacy with the Feds instead of wanton death and violence. No, they weren't wrong.
First of all, we don’t know that there was any pretense involved. I think the Klingons probably did believe when the operation started that Changelings were positioning themselves to take control of the Cardassian Union. For that matter, just because the council members themselves didn’t turn out to be changelings doesn’t mean the Klingons were wrong about the coup being supported by the Founders as part of a strategy to take control of Cardassia. (Disclaimer: WOTW is as far as I have gotten. I don’t know what future episodes will tell us about changelings on Cardassia.)

As for military expansionism against a sovereign state that was poorly defended and ripe for the taking, that’s what empires do. They are the Klingon Empire, right? Doesn’t the Federation treaty with the Klingon Empire give them a right under the treaty to be an empire? Hard to imagine the empire agreeing to a treaty that didn’t. (It’s even harder to imagine the Klingons being okay with such a treaty, which would make the Klingon’s eventual withdrawal from the treaty a practical certainty.) Presumably, the treaty would prohibit the Klingons from moving against space controlled by the Federation, Federation member worlds, or Federation protected worlds, but would allow some room for expansion, as long as the expansion is consistent with Federation interests. Granted, I’m just making reasonable assumptions because I haven’t had an opportunity to read the treaty.

As for Federation interests, does the Federation want Cardassian space controlled by Cardassians, who are hostile to the Federation, or do they want the space controlled by a Federation ally? I think the latter is better for the Federation, especially if the Klingons are correct about the Dominion’s involvement in the coup. When Gowron says, “All that matters is the Alpha Quadrant will be safer with the Klingon Empire in control of Cardassia,” he seems to be making a lot of sense.

By challenging the Klingon invasion of Cardassia, they not only kept that space in the hands of a hostile power, but provoked the Klingons to withdraw from the treaty with the Federation and the High Chancellor to declare, “The Klingon Empire will remember what has happened here. You sided against us in battle, and this we do not forgive, or forget.”

So, by doing nothing, Klingon space and Cardassian space would both have been controlled by a Federation ally. Because the Federation intervened, Klingon space and Cardassian space are both controlled by enemies of the Federation, and the prospect of a united Alpha Quadrant standing against the Dominion has become much less likely.

Gary Mitchell wrote: View Post
captrek wrote: View Post
In the episode they chose option #1. Did they make the right call?
I don't remember the UFP intervening militarily. I just remember Sisko helping to evacuate the Detapa Council.
The evacuation of the Council was a military operation. They came in with a warship and attacked and destroyed Klingon warships in order to facilitate the evacuation. When the Klingons pursued, it led to the confrontation at DS9, with Sisko turning the station’s military power against the Klingons, destroying at least eight Klingon ships, and had several Starfleet ships on the way for reinforcement.

With this show of military force, the Federation demanded the Klingons relinquish control of the Cardassian colonies they seized during the invasion. (Dax reported that the Klingons were “refusing” to do that, which suggests that the Federation made such a demand.) No two ways about it, that’s military intervention.

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Old July 17 2009, 03:16 AM   #13
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

The Federation Council ordered Starfleet not to interfere until they could begin talks with Gowron. Sisko took it upon himself to rescue the Detapa Council. The mission was not endorsed by the U.F.P.
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Old July 17 2009, 06:08 AM   #14
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

Gary Mitchell wrote: View Post
The Federation Council ordered Starfleet not to interfere until they could begin talks with Gowron. Sisko took it upon himself to rescue the Detapa Council. The mission was not endorsed by the U.F.P.
I stand corrected.

Here’s a review of key quotes and events, along with my commentary.

BTW, why are color tags disabled on this forum? For legibility, I wanted to represent quotes, events, and commentary in three different colors, but I can’t. Instead I’ll put quotes in bold, commentary in italics, and [events surrounded by brackets].

[Worf learns of the Klingon plan and tells Sisko.]

Sisko: By attacking Cardassia, they think they’re protecting the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion.

Sisko accepts that the Klingons are honest in their concerns about the Dominion taking over Cardassia.


[Sisko confronts Martok.]

Sisko: General, I want you to call off this attack.
Martok: And what do you propose we do instead? Stand by and allow the Dominion to take over the Alpha Quadrant?
There is no reason to doubt the sincerity of the Klingon Empire’s concern about the coup on Cardassia. Looking at it from the Klingon point of view, they have no choice. Like Martok says, they can’t just stand by and do nothing while the Dominion gets a huge beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant. Sisko is making a demand that the Klingons can’t possibly agree to, and doesn’t seem to realize it.

[Sisko addresses his senior staff after talking to Starfleet.]

Sisko: We’ve been ordered not to get involved.
It is the job of the top brass in Starfleet and the Federation government to make these decisions, and they made their decision. There is room for argument on whether it was the correct decision, but it’s certainly not a completely unreasonable decision, and it was made by the people who are authorized by the people of the Federation to make those decisions.
Dax: The Klingons are still our allies. If we warn the Cardassians, we’d be betraying them.
O’Brien: Besides, what if the Klingons are right? What if the Dominion has taken over the Cardassian government?
O’Brien: If we disobey Starfleet orders and warn the Cardassians, we may end up starting a war with the Klingons.
All these were certainly factors that influenced the decision not to get involved.

[Sisko defies orders and warns the Cardassians.]
I’m not sure what the point was of the silly “Tailor, take my measurements for a suit” game. When Sisko is intentionally talking about the coming invasion in front of somebody who he knows will convey the information to the Cardassians, does he think he’s not disobeying orders because he’s not addressing Garak directly?

[The Cardassian government becomes aware of the threat, thanks to Sisko.]
Sisko: They’ve [the Federation Council] decided to condemn the Klingon invasion. In response, Gowron has expelled all Federation citizens from the Klingon Empire, and recalled his ambassadors from the Federation.... The Klingons have withdrawn from the Khitomer Accords. The peace treaty between the Federation and the Klingon Empire has ended.
By disobeying orders and warning the Cardassians, Sisko may have forced the Federation to act sooner than they wanted to. Gowron’s response was certainly an overreaction, but not completely surprising, considering who we’re talking about. If Dax’s reading of the treaty is correct, it was Sisko who first breached the treaty when he warned the Cardassians about the invasion.

[Gowron asks Worf to join the invasion force. Worf says he cannot because of his oath to Starfleet.]
Gowron: What good is your word when you give it to people who care nothing for honor? Who refuse to lift a finger while Klingon warriors shed blood for their protection? I tell you they are without honor!
Given Klingon belief that the Dominion is behind the coup on Cardassia, and given Klingon values, and given Sisko’s violation of both the Klingo-Fed treaty and his oath as a Starfleet officer to obey the lawful orders of his superiors, Gowron’s position is completely understandable and completely predictable.

[Sisko disobeys orders again and arranges with Dukat to rescue the members of the Datapa Council.]
Worf: Sir, if the Klingons are right, if the Cardassian government has been taken over by the Founders...
Sisko: [interrupting] Then we’ll be helping them to escape. That’s the chance we’ll have to take.
A chance that his superiors judged was not worth taking, but who listens to them?

[Sisko and crew set out on the Defiant on the mission to rescue the Datapa council. They cloak on the way to the rendezvous.]
Bashir: Our agreement with the Romulans expressly prohibits use of the cloaking device in the Alpha Quadrant.
Sisko: You’re right, it does. But there are hundreds of Klingon ships between us and Dukat, and I intend to make that rendezvous in one piece.
Great. So in addition to disobeying orders, destroying relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, and possibly supporting a Dominion plot to establish a large beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant, Sisko has also taken it upon himself to breach a treaty between the Federation and Romulus and effectively send the message that the agreement will be ignored whenever it’s inconvenient. That can’t be good for Romulo-Federation relations.
Bashir: Well, I won’t tell the Romulans if you don’t.
I wouldn’t expect the Klingons to be so tight-lipped. And how else are you going to explain how the Detapa council members ended up on DS9 with a Klingon fleet hot on their heels? There’s no way Romulus doesn’t find out about this.

[The Defiant arrives at the rendezvous and finds Dukat’s ship under attack by multiple Klingon ships.]
Sisko: Arm quantum torpedoes, drop the cloak, and raise shields. We’re going in. Red Alert. Commander Worf, transmit a priority one signal to the Klingon ship. Tell them to break off their attack and stand down immediately.
Ironically, this would probably be another breach by Sisko of the Klingo-Fed treaty, if the Klingon Empire hadn’t just withdrawn from it. Still, it is still arguably an act of war against the Klingon Empire, even if the Klingons did end up firing the first shot.

[The Defiant rescues the council and hightails it back to DS9 with the Klingons in hot pursuit.]
Martok: Captain [Sisko], I demand you surrender the Cardassian council members to us immediately.
Sisko has put the Federation in a very awkward position. It is one thing to stand by and not interfere while the Klingon Empire invades Cardassia. It is quite another thing to actively participate in the conquest by handing the Cardassian government over to the Klingons. Of course, Sisko spares the Federation from having to make that difficult decision by taking it upon himself to make the decision instead of consulting with those who have the authority to make it.
Sisko: They’re not Founders, Martok. We tested them. You were wrong.
Just because the council members themselves aren’t changelings doesn’t mean the Dominion hasn’t infiltrated this government or that the coup is not part of a Dominion strategy to control Cardassia.
Gowron: It is of no consequence. All that matters is the Alpha Quadrant will be safer with the Klingon Empire in control of Cardassia.
Sounds reasonable. It would sound even more reasonable if the Khitomer Accords were still in effect. Better to have Federation, Klingon, and Cardassian space ruled by two allied powers than by three powers who all hate each other.
Gowron: Now surrender the council members or we will have no choice but to take them by force.
Sisko: And risk an all-out war with the Federation?
What outrageous hypocrisy! Sisko figures that when he and his crew commit an act of aggression against the Klingons, the Klingons are supposed to take it, but if the Klingons respond with their own act of aggression (which, as pointed out above, the Klingons are pretty much compelled to), it is the Klingons who are responsible for starting a war. Ridiculous. Sisko invited the Klingons to war; ironically it was the war-loving Klingons who declined the invitation.
Gowron: If a war starts here, the blame will be yours.
He’s right.

Gowron: [says something in Klingon]
Worf: He said, “It is a good day to die.”
Completely unrelated, but I have wondered about this. How come the Klingons usually speak in English, and when they speak in Klingon the universal translator doesn’t translate it?

[A battle ensues between DS9 and the Klingon fleet. At least eight Klingon ships are destroyed.]
Sisko: This is exactly what the Founders want. Klingon against Cardassian. Federation against Klingon. The more we fight each other, the weaker we’ll get, and the less chance we have against the Dominion.
No kidding, Benjamin. Those sound like some pretty damn good reasons to leave the Klingons alone instead of turning against them.

[Gowron, realizing his fleet is up against impossible odds, withdraws, but makes a parting comment.]
Gowron: The Klingon Empire will remember what has happened here. You have sided against us in battle, and this we do not forgive, or forget!

What a day. Sisko has repeatedly disobeyed direct orders, possibly supported a Dominion operation to establish a strategic beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant near the wormhole, turned a powerful ally into a powerful enemy, and breached a Romulo-Federation agreement. He should be court martialed.

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Old July 17 2009, 06:44 AM   #15
RobertScorpio
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Re: WOTW: Did UFP make the right call?

captrek wrote: View Post
Gary Mitchell wrote: View Post
The Federation Council ordered Starfleet not to interfere until they could begin talks with Gowron. Sisko took it upon himself to rescue the Detapa Council. The mission was not endorsed by the U.F.P.
I stand corrected.

Here’s a review of key quotes and events, along with my commentary.

BTW, why are color tags disabled on this forum? For legibility, I wanted to represent quotes, events, and commentary in three different colors, but I can’t. Instead I’ll put quotes in bold, commentary in italics, and [events surrounded by brackets].

[Worf learns of the Klingon plan and tells Sisko.]

Sisko: By attacking Cardassia, they think they’re protecting the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion.

Sisko accepts that the Klingons are honest in their concerns about the Dominion taking over Cardassia.


[Sisko confronts Martok.]

Sisko: General, I want you to call off this attack.
Martok: And what do you propose we do instead? Stand by and allow the Dominion to take over the Alpha Quadrant?
There is no reason to doubt the sincerity of the Klingon Empire’s concern about the coup on Cardassia. Looking at it from the Klingon point of view, they have no choice. Like Martok says, they can’t just stand by and do nothing while the Dominion gets a huge beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant. Sisko is making a demand that the Klingons can’t possibly agree to, and doesn’t seem to realize it.

[Sisko addresses his senior staff after talking to Starfleet.]

Sisko: We’ve been ordered not to get involved.
It is the job of the top brass in Starfleet and the Federation government to make these decisions, and they made their decision. There is room for argument on whether it was the correct decision, but it’s certainly not a completely unreasonable decision, and it was made by the people who are authorized by the people of the Federation to make those decisions.
Dax: The Klingons are still our allies. If we warn the Cardassians, we’d be betraying them.
O’Brien: Besides, what if the Klingons are right? What if the Dominion has taken over the Cardassian government?
O’Brien: If we disobey Starfleet orders and warn the Cardassians, we may end up starting a war with the Klingons.
All these were certainly factors that influenced the decision not to get involved.

[Sisko defies orders and warns the Cardassians.]
I’m not sure what the point was of the silly “Tailor, take my measurements for a suit” game. When Sisko is intentionally talking about the coming invasion in front of somebody who he knows will convey the information to the Cardassians, does he think he’s not disobeying orders because he’s not addressing Garak directly?

[The Cardassian government becomes aware of the threat, thanks to Sisko.]
Sisko: They’ve [the Federation Council] decided to condemn the Klingon invasion. In response, Gowron has expelled all Federation citizens from the Klingon Empire, and recalled his ambassadors from the Federation.... The Klingons have withdrawn from the Khitomer Accords. The peace treaty between the Federation and the Klingon Empire has ended.
By disobeying orders and warning the Cardassians, Sisko may have forced the Federation to act sooner than they wanted to. Gowron’s response was certainly an overreaction, but not completely surprising, considering who we’re talking about. If Dax’s reading of the treaty is correct, it was Sisko who first breached the treaty when he warned the Cardassians about the invasion.

[Gowron asks Worf to join the invasion force. Worf says he cannot because of his oath to Starfleet.]
Gowron: What good is your word when you give it to people who care nothing for honor? Who refuse to lift a finger while Klingon warriors shed blood for their protection? I tell you they are without honor!
Given Klingon belief that the Dominion is behind the coup on Cardassia, and given Klingon values, and given Sisko’s violation of both the Klingo-Fed treaty and his oath as a Starfleet officer to obey the lawful orders of his superiors, Gowron’s position is completely understandable and completely predictable.

[Sisko disobeys orders again and arranges with Dukat to rescue the members of the Datapa Council.]
Worf: Sir, if the Klingons are right, if the Cardassian government has been taken over by the Founders...
Sisko: [interrupting] Then we’ll be helping them to escape. That’s the chance we’ll have to take.
A chance that his superiors judged was not worth taking, but who listens to them?

[Sisko and crew set out on the Defiant on the mission to rescue the Datapa council. They cloak on the way to the rendezvous.]
Bashir: Our agreement with the Romulans expressly prohibits use of the cloaking device in the Alpha Quadrant.
Sisko: You’re right, it does. But there are hundreds of Klingon ships between us and Dukat, and I intend to make that rendezvous in one piece.
Great. So in addition to disobeying orders, destroying relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, and possibly supporting a Dominion plot to establish a large beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant, Sisko has also taken it upon himself to breach a treaty between the Federation and Romulus and effectively send the message that the agreement will be ignored whenever it’s inconvenient. That can’t be good for Romulo-Federation relations.
Bashir: Well, I won’t tell the Romulans if you don’t.
I wouldn’t expect the Klingons to be so tight-lipped. And how else are you going to explain how the Detapa council members ended up on DS9 with a Klingon fleet hot on their heels? There’s no way Romulus doesn’t find out about this.

[The Defiant arrives at the rendezvous and finds Dukat’s ship under attack by multiple Klingon ships.]
Sisko: Arm quantum torpedoes, drop the cloak, and raise shields. We’re going in. Red Alert. Commander Worf, transmit a priority one signal to the Klingon ship. Tell them to break off their attack and stand down immediately.
Ironically, this would probably be another breach by Sisko of the Klingo-Fed treaty, if the Klingon Empire hadn’t just withdrawn from it. Still, it is still arguably an act of war against the Klingon Empire, even if the Klingons did end up firing the first shot.

[The Defiant rescues the council and hightails it back to DS9 with the Klingons in hot pursuit.]
Martok: Captain [Sisko], I demand you surrender the Cardassian council members to us immediately.
Sisko has put the Federation in a very awkward position. It is one thing to stand by and not interfere while the Klingon Empire invades Cardassia. It is quite another thing to actively participate in the conquest by handing the Cardassian government over to the Klingons. Of course, Sisko spares the Federation from having to make that difficult decision by taking it upon himself to make the decision instead of consulting with those who have the authority to make it.
Sisko: They’re not Founders, Martok. We tested them. You were wrong.
Just because the council members themselves aren’t changelings doesn’t mean the Dominion hasn’t infiltrated this government or that the coup is not part of a Dominion strategy to control Cardassia.
Gowron: It is of no consequence. All that matters is the Alpha Quadrant will be safer with the Klingon Empire in control of Cardassia.
Sounds reasonable. It would sound even more reasonable if the Khitomer Accords were still in effect. Better to have Federation, Klingon, and Cardassian space ruled by two allied powers than by three powers who all hate each other.
Gowron: Now surrender the council members or we will have no choice but to take them by force.
Sisko: And risk an all-out war with the Federation?
What outrageous hypocrisy! Sisko figures that when he and his crew commit an act of aggression against the Klingons, the Klingons are supposed to take it, but if the Klingons respond with their own act of aggression (which, as pointed out above, the Klingons are pretty much compelled to), it is the Klingons who are responsible for starting a war. Ridiculous. Sisko invited the Klingons to war; ironically it was the war-loving Klingons who declined the invitation.
Gowron: If a war starts here, the blame will be yours.
He’s right.

Gowron: [says something in Klingon]
Worf: He said, “It is a good day to die.”
Completely unrelated, but I have wondered about this. How come the Klingons usually speak in English, and when they speak in Klingon the universal translator doesn’t translate it?

[A battle ensues between DS9 and the Klingon fleet. At least eight Klingon ships are destroyed.]
Sisko: This is exactly what the Founders want. Klingon against Cardassian. Federation against Klingon. The more we fight each other, the weaker we’ll get, and the less chance we have against the Dominion.
No kidding, Benjamin. Those sound like some pretty damn good reasons to leave the Klingons alone instead of turning against them.

[Gowron, realizing his fleet is up against impossible odds, withdraws, but makes a parting comment.]
Gowron: The Klingon Empire will remember what has happened here. You have sided against us in battle, and this we do not forgive, or forget!

What a day. Sisko has repeatedly disobeyed direct orders, possibly supported a Dominion operation to establish a strategic beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant near the wormhole, turned a powerful ally into a powerful enemy, and breached a Romulo-Federation agreement. He should be court martialed.
I had to step in here (I am on vacation you know)

At no point is it ever suggested that the Founders were the cause of unrest on Cardassia. It is 'believed' to be so,by the Klingons. But Garak contacts Dukat, who is there on Cardassia, and he denies it...

So...Sisko believed the Klingons to be wrong. (Just like BUSH ended up being wrong by the way about WMDs. The show happens BEFORE Bush's invaison..but oh the similarities are there)

So I disagree..Sisko rightfully saw the Klingon invaison as wrong and broke orders to try and save the legitimate government of Cardassia. And Gowron proved he was about as unstable as a klingon could be. And if you have been watching STAR TREK, this so called "klingon honor" is a joke. The whole ordeal with Worf's dad, and the very way Gowron came to power (for all we know HE was behind the murder of KMPEC) proves that this klingon honor stuff is just a bunch of TARG crap.

Sisko did the right thing, and Starfleet recognized this by not charging him with anything...

Rob
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