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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 18 10.17%
Above Average 38 21.47%
Average 50 28.25%
Below Average 30 16.95%
Poor 41 23.16%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 10 2009, 07:24 AM   #376
captcalhoun
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Marie1 wrote: View Post
^ I did not know this... tho I have no Transformers background, so I'll need to study up (even if the next film isn't till 2011 (Bay) or 2012 (not Bay).

Which would be better, if they'd have gone with the comic maybe? (Re: AllSpark, if I'm understanding this).
the only way in the comics someone came back to life was if they were rebuilt from substantial injuries. (Jazz, for example was rebuilt from being critically injured and near-dead to become a Pretender) the only person who was every blown apart so fatally and come back was Prime himself, who's personality was saved on a 3 3/4in floppy disc (srsly), had a new body built and his personality transferred to the new body.
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Old July 10 2009, 01:42 PM   #377
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the only way in the comics someone came back to life was if they were rebuilt from substantial injuries. (Jazz, for example was rebuilt from being critically injured and near-dead to become a Pretender) the only person who was every blown apart so fatally and come back was Prime himself, who's personality was saved on a 3 3/4in floppy disc (srsly), had a new body built and his personality transferred to the new body.
That wasn't the only method. That Optimus Prime would also later die and be brought back because his personality fused with Hi-Q, an alien he bonded with. An ancient Transformer known as "The Last Autobot" constructed a new body for Optimus Prime and thus he was "reborn" from the "soul" that was inside Hi-Q.
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Old July 10 2009, 03:13 PM   #378
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Im going to go see this movie tonight, will return with my vote then.

Hoping it does not suck as much as you guys keep voting!
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Old July 10 2009, 08:36 PM   #379
captcalhoun
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

God Magnus wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the only way in the comics someone came back to life was if they were rebuilt from substantial injuries. (Jazz, for example was rebuilt from being critically injured and near-dead to become a Pretender) the only person who was every blown apart so fatally and come back was Prime himself, who's personality was saved on a 3 3/4in floppy disc (srsly), had a new body built and his personality transferred to the new body.
That wasn't the only method. That Optimus Prime would also later die and be brought back because his personality fused with Hi-Q, an alien he bonded with. An ancient Transformer known as "The Last Autobot" constructed a new body for Optimus Prime and thus he was "reborn" from the "soul" that was inside Hi-Q.
DOH! forgot that.
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Old July 11 2009, 01:47 AM   #380
Marie1
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
God Magnus wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the only way in the comics someone came back to life was if they were rebuilt from substantial injuries. (Jazz, for example was rebuilt from being critically injured and near-dead to become a Pretender) the only person who was every blown apart so fatally and come back was Prime himself, who's personality was saved on a 3 3/4in floppy disc (srsly), had a new body built and his personality transferred to the new body.
That wasn't the only method. That Optimus Prime would also later die and be brought back because his personality fused with Hi-Q, an alien he bonded with. An ancient Transformer known as "The Last Autobot" constructed a new body for Optimus Prime and thus he was "reborn" from the "soul" that was inside Hi-Q.
DOH! forgot that.
Wow... OK... so Jazz could come back...
Who are the Pretenders? I haven't come across them in my "research" yet.
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Old July 11 2009, 01:51 AM   #381
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Marie1 wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
God Magnus wrote: View Post
That wasn't the only method. That Optimus Prime would also later die and be brought back because his personality fused with Hi-Q, an alien he bonded with. An ancient Transformer known as "The Last Autobot" constructed a new body for Optimus Prime and thus he was "reborn" from the "soul" that was inside Hi-Q.
DOH! forgot that.
Wow... OK... so Jazz could come back...
Who are the Pretenders? I haven't come across them in my "research" yet.
Basically there Transformers with either a human altmode (Autobots) or some freaky mutant altmode (Decepticons), also its what the Decepticon terminator chick was.
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Old July 11 2009, 07:22 AM   #382
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

not quite...

Pretenders are Transformers that have an outer 'shell' that they can use. originally, it was a flesh shell that was either human looking - but like 35' tall - or a monsterous creature for the Autobots and 'cons (as Hart said), but later Pretenders also had animal shells (the so-called Pretender Beasts), vehicles (the Pretender Vehicles), or even a shell that could transform and the Ultra Pretenders had two shells.

Alice was a 'tribute' to the Pretenders, but since she actually transformed from flesh and blood to a robot, she wasn't a Pretender per se.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Pretenders
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Old July 11 2009, 12:18 PM   #383
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
not quite...

Pretenders are Transformers that have an outer 'shell' that they can use. originally, it was a flesh shell that was either human looking - but like 35' tall - or a monsterous creature for the Autobots and 'cons (as Hart said), but later Pretenders also had animal shells (the so-called Pretender Beasts), vehicles (the Pretender Vehicles), or even a shell that could transform and the Ultra Pretenders had two shells.

Alice was a 'tribute' to the Pretenders, but since she actually transformed from flesh and blood to a robot, she wasn't a Pretender per se.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Pretenders
It can be argued that Alice is much closer to the Japanese interpretation of Pretenders. Whereas in the US and Europe Pretenders had "outer shells" with a robot inside acting as an independent unit, in Japan the Pretenders were human sized and looked human in every way (down to civilian clothing) but when the needed to they would "become" the robot rather than split open and reveal one.
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Old July 11 2009, 01:11 PM   #384
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Saw the movie yesterday, and it was average... not bad, but not fantastic.. my twinsister actually left to catch a train since she could not finish watching it lol
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Old July 11 2009, 03:58 PM   #385
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Marie1 wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post

DOH! forgot that.
Wow... OK... so Jazz could come back...
Who are the Pretenders? I haven't come across them in my "research" yet.
Basically there Transformers with either a human altmode (Autobots) or some freaky mutant altmode (Decepticons), also its what the Decepticon terminator chick was.

God Magnus wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
not quite...

Pretenders are Transformers that have an outer 'shell' that they can use. originally, it was a flesh shell that was either human looking - but like 35' tall - or a monsterous creature for the Autobots and 'cons (as Hart said), but later Pretenders also had animal shells (the so-called Pretender Beasts), vehicles (the Pretender Vehicles), or even a shell that could transform and the Ultra Pretenders had two shells.

Alice was a 'tribute' to the Pretenders, but since she actually transformed from flesh and blood to a robot, she wasn't a Pretender per se.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Pretenders
It can be argued that Alice is much closer to the Japanese interpretation of Pretenders. Whereas in the US and Europe Pretenders had "outer shells" with a robot inside acting as an independent unit, in Japan the Pretenders were human sized and looked human in every way (down to civilian clothing) but when the needed to they would "become" the robot rather than split open and reveal one.

Cool, guys!! Thanks (and thanks for the link!)
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Old July 12 2009, 06:10 AM   #386
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Having been to this museum numerous times, I can shed some light on this. While technically, it is the air and space museum, it's actually the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center. It's adjacent to Washington Dulles international airport and is close enough that calling it Washington D.C. is understandable, it's only a few miles away. They obviously filmed the interior shots in the museum itself, it's exactly how it appears in the movie. Of course, last I checked, the SR-71 is still very much there. One difference that stood out to me though, I don't remember a bathroom being at the entrance to the area where the space shuttle Enterprise is. Of course, I may be wrong on that. This museum is basically a satellite museum of the Smithsonian air and space museum that is in downtown Washington.

Also, there is no desert outside that end door. There is no aircraft graveyard out there also. There's actually probably not enough room to put one there, the museum is located between the flight path of the two runways. It's been since the late 80's since I've been to Davis-Monthan AFB, but it appears the graveyard shots are from there. I noticed the C-130 in the background had Pope AFB markings, that's only relevant to me as Pope was located in Fayetteville, N.C. where I'm from and was closed just a few years ago.

God Magnus wrote: View Post

8. The Back of the Smithsonian is a desert?
I wondered about this one too when I first saw the movie. However, after seeing it again last night, I realized that the area in the back of the hangar wasn't just sand. It was actually a huge area covered in grass, even the area Sam cuts the symbols into. The way it's described in the article, you'd think they stepped into the Sahara. I just assumed for the sake of sanity that the way the museum is in this "movie universe", it has a big open area of grass outside with old planes parked there.
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Old July 12 2009, 08:10 AM   #387
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

I have to say, of all the Transformers origin stories, I think I like the G1 cartoon version the least -- even less than the Bay movie backstory. In the original comic, the Transformers were created by Primus, who was a giant good robot god from another dimension battling the evil god Unicron. If I remember right, they each crashed into an asteroid. They fused with each asteroid, and Unicron got his planet alt mode while Primus became Cybertron. The purpose of the Transformers was the battle Unicron.

In the cartoon, the Transformers were simply products created by an evil group of five-faced tentacled aliens called Quintessons. They were built on Cybertron, the Quintessons' robot factory. The Decepticons were military hardware, the Autobots consumer goods. They revolted and drove the Quints off Cybertron, then the military robots decided to conquer all.

Even the movie backstory of the TFs -- what we know of it so far -- is better than having goofy-looking evil aliens being their creators. I'm a TF fan from childhood, but as far as I'm concerned, the less of the cartoon backstory they use, the better.

Re: Pretenders, this was probably the second dumbest gimick of the G1 era. The backstory of the Pretenders for the toys (they never appeared on the cartoon) was that they needed to disguise themselves as humans. The only problem is that they hide inside these super fat 50' tall human shells, so it kinda made no sense. The one cool thing about the Pretenders is that they included newer versions of older characters that were no longer available in stores like Jazz, Bumblebee, and Grimlock.

The dumbest of all, backstory-wise, has to be the Action Masters. They were Transformers that didn't transform into anything. While they were pretty cool looking figures, and more poseable than most regular figures, the backstory made even less sense than the Pretenders' backstory. On the commercial, Optimus Prime has assembled his troops and announced that to win the war against the Decepticons, "We must give up the art of transforming." Say whah? Why don't we just give up our weapons while we're at it, Optimus? Hasbro wasn't putting a tremendous amount of thought into that last line of G1 products.

EDIT: To those who were offended by the twins, evidently Orci and Kurtzman share your pain.
Cole: I heard that the gold tooth was Michael Bay’s idea, but do you have any response to those who found The Twins offensive?
Orci: Number one, we sympathize. Yes, the gold tooth was not in the script, that’s true.
Kurtzman: It’s really hard for us to sit here and try to justify it. I think that would be very foolish, and if someone wants to be offended by it, it’s their right. We were very surprised when we saw it, too, and it’s a choice that was made. If anything, it just shows you that we don’t control every aspect of the movie.

Cole: Were you offended by them?
Kurtzman: I wasn’t thrilled. I certainly wasn’t thrilled.
Orci: Yeah, same reaction. I’m not easily offended, but when I saw it, I thought, ‘Someone’s gonna write about that.’”
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Old July 12 2009, 11:47 AM   #388
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

IcecreamLtDan wrote: View Post
Having been to this museum numerous times, I can shed some light on this. While technically, it is the air and space museum, it's actually the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center. It's adjacent to Washington Dulles international airport and is close enough that calling it Washington D.C. is understandable, it's only a few miles away. They obviously filmed the interior shots in the museum itself, it's exactly how it appears in the movie. Of course, last I checked, the SR-71 is still very much there. One difference that stood out to me though, I don't remember a bathroom being at the entrance to the area where the space shuttle Enterprise is. Of course, I may be wrong on that. This museum is basically a satellite museum of the Smithsonian air and space museum that is in downtown Washington.

Also, there is no desert outside that end door. There is no aircraft graveyard out there also. There's actually probably not enough room to put one there, the museum is located between the flight path of the two runways. It's been since the late 80's since I've been to Davis-Monthan AFB, but it appears the graveyard shots are from there. I noticed the C-130 in the background had Pope AFB markings, that's only relevant to me as Pope was located in Fayetteville, N.C. where I'm from and was closed just a few years ago.

God Magnus wrote: View Post

8. The Back of the Smithsonian is a desert?
I wondered about this one too when I first saw the movie. However, after seeing it again last night, I realized that the area in the back of the hangar wasn't just sand. It was actually a huge area covered in grass, even the area Sam cuts the symbols into. The way it's described in the article, you'd think they stepped into the Sahara. I just assumed for the sake of sanity that the way the museum is in this "movie universe", it has a big open area of grass outside with old planes parked there.
IIRC, however, the exterior they show of the museum they go to is of the A&SM in "downtown" DC.
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Old July 12 2009, 03:01 PM   #389
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
The dumbest of all, backstory-wise, has to be the Action Masters. They were Transformers that didn't transform into anything. While they were pretty cool looking figures, and more poseable than most regular figures, the backstory made even less sense than the Pretenders' backstory. On the commercial, Optimus Prime has assembled his troops and announced that to win the war against the Decepticons, "We must give up the art of transforming." Say whah? Why don't we just give up our weapons while we're at it, Optimus? Hasbro wasn't putting a tremendous amount of thought into that last line of G1 products.
Actually, in the toy line the backstory for Action Masters is that Energon has become almost completely exhausted and the Transformers had to find a new power source. The new power source was called Nucleon. It never ran out, but it forced all the transformation systems in a Cybertronian's body to become reactors to keep the Nucleon going. The side effect however was the loss of transformation ability. The commercial just put that dramatic spin on it with Prime asking "Who will join me?!" etc.

In the comic book, Nucleon was an experimental energy source said to have miraculous abilities. Only a select few Transformers used it including Grimlock, who used it to bring the Dinobots back to life.
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Old July 12 2009, 05:38 PM   #390
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Re: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - Grading & Discussion

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Re: Pretenders, this was probably the second dumbest gimick of the G1 era. The backstory of the Pretenders for the toys (they never appeared on the cartoon)
Well they do appear in one of the Japanese G1 cartoons.
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