RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,713
Posts: 5,432,089
Members: 24,835
Currently online: 584
Newest member: SB118_T'Mar


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 9 2009, 06:10 PM   #136
dru
Fleet Captain
 
dru's Avatar
 
Location: Rigel IV
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Saquist wrote: View Post
According to this the Core did proceed down to an antimatter souce. Produced by Paramount from this illistrator.
Not to be pedantic but the sheet itself says 1701-A. He's working on TMP ship. Add in that the only time we saw engineering of the 1701-A it was a scant redress of TNG's Engineering and we can see the engineering core/intermix is the wrong design on the sheet anyway.

Anyway, as to what things are called, there's also Andy Probert's drawing which has some labels with the vertical shaft "impluse" and the horizontal "warp"

__________________
dru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9 2009, 07:15 PM   #137
Saquist
Commodore
 
Location: Starbase Houston
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Gentlemen...

What we are facing here is a "thread derailment." If you want to discuss the concept of the TMP reactor core, and whether it works one way or another way... there is a forum for that, and you can go there and create a new thread to discuss this to your hearts' content.

This thread is here for CTM to post his work, and for us to watch his work and, where possible and appropriate, to comment on his work (primarily in the form of "constructive criticism).

Anything else is inappropriate for this thread.

Agreed?
Yes sir.
Saquist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9 2009, 09:20 PM   #138
CTM
Lieutenant Commander
 
CTM's Avatar
 
Location: The exact center of my universe
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

I even created a thread for just this discussion over here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=90908
CTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9 2009, 10:16 PM   #139
Patrickivan
Fleet Captain
 
Patrickivan's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Good- Now CTM can get back to work!
__________________
http://patrickivan.wordpress.com/page/2/

40 Years and ticking. Damn, that's too old fashioned.
40 years and still processing!
Patrickivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9 2009, 10:20 PM   #140
CTM
Lieutenant Commander
 
CTM's Avatar
 
Location: The exact center of my universe
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
Good- Now CTM can get back to work!
Probably not until the weekend, and thanks to a tasker that got dropped on my head this afternoon, perhaps not even then.
CTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 10:28 AM   #141
DiamondJoe
Ensign
 
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Fair do's. I should get out more anyway.
DiamondJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 10:46 AM   #142
DiamondJoe
Ensign
 
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Actually, I wish I'd seen that thread sooner - its the exact same discussion!
DiamondJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 12:43 PM   #143
CTM
Lieutenant Commander
 
CTM's Avatar
 
Location: The exact center of my universe
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

DiamondJoe wrote: View Post
Actually, I wish I'd seen that thread sooner - its the exact same discussion!
It was one I started before I started this project - because I needed to settle that point before I could even start the construction. From a design standpoint, everything hinges on where the intermix is located. I reached my conclusion in that thread, and moved on to start this build.
CTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 03:45 PM   #144
Saquist
Commodore
 
Location: Starbase Houston
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

So what changes are there between your design and the original in the area of main engineering?
Saquist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 06:19 PM   #145
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Saquist wrote: View Post
According to this the Core did proceed down to an antimatter souce.
Produced by Paramount from this illistrator.
Strictly speaking, it proceeded FROM an antimatter source. The top of the intermix--the impulse deflection crystal--is not a deuterium injector, it's a transfer point between the intermix chamber and the impulse engines. As Probert explained once, the entire purpose of the intermix chamber is to connect the matter/antimatter reactor to all the engine parts that will make use of its power. Those same schematics also show an auxiliary fusion generator on S-Deck (feeding into the intermix chamber incase the main reactor fails) and likewise show the reactor itself on U-Deck; THAT reactor at the bottom of the shaft IS the warp core. If you don't believe me, go to sheet nine and read the synopsis for U-Deck where it says:

U-Deck is also known as the reactor deck. The reactor bay holds the main matter/antimatter reactor, twenty four antimatter storage bottles, and the bottom of vertical intermix shaft Engineering Core. Aft of the reactor bay is the retractable tractor beam, flanked by two bussard collectors, which gather interstellar hydrogen, process it, and refil all internal hydrogen tanks.
Apart from basically placing the ramscoop in the main deflector dish (as I always thought it should be) this would also mean the ship's deuterium stores are small to non-existence since at warp speed the ship runs almost entirely on material gathered from the interstellar medium.


Come to think of it, CTM, that's a tricky choice to make once you get to work on the navigational deflector. Especially considering your designs are based on this blueprint, if you put the ramscoop in the deflector, you'd have to flesh out some kind of plumbing system in the front of the engineering hull to route deuterium to where it needs to go.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 07:45 PM   #146
Cary L. Brown
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Austin, Texas
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Saquist wrote: View Post
According to this the Core did proceed down to an antimatter souce.
Produced by Paramount from this illistrator.
Strictly speaking, it proceeded FROM an antimatter source. The top of the intermix--the impulse deflection crystal--is not a deuterium injector, it's a transfer point between the intermix chamber and the impulse engines. As Probert explained once, the entire purpose of the intermix chamber is to connect the matter/antimatter reactor to all the engine parts that will make use of its power. Those same schematics also show an auxiliary fusion generator on S-Deck (feeding into the intermix chamber incase the main reactor fails) and likewise show the reactor itself on U-Deck; THAT reactor at the bottom of the shaft IS the warp core. If you don't believe me, go to sheet nine and read the synopsis for U-Deck where it says:

U-Deck is also known as the reactor deck. The reactor bay holds the main matter/antimatter reactor, twenty four antimatter storage bottles, and the bottom of vertical intermix shaft Engineering Core. Aft of the reactor bay is the retractable tractor beam, flanked by two bussard collectors, which gather interstellar hydrogen, process it, and refil all internal hydrogen tanks.
Apart from basically placing the ramscoop in the main deflector dish (as I always thought it should be) this would also mean the ship's deuterium stores are small to non-existence since at warp speed the ship runs almost entirely on material gathered from the interstellar medium.


Come to think of it, CTM, that's a tricky choice to make once you get to work on the navigational deflector. Especially considering your designs are based on this blueprint, if you put the ramscoop in the deflector, you'd have to flesh out some kind of plumbing system in the front of the engineering hull to route deuterium to where it needs to go.
I've often wondered about this... the apparent lack of "TOS-ish" bussard collectors on the TMP ship nacelles may have been due to the determination that the deflector, on its own, was able to collect enough material to support the ship's needs.

For the TOS ship, I generally assume that the dish doesn't have any collection capabilities. For TNG-era ships, they've gone back to having a collector on each nacelle (excepting for one "First Contact Armada" ship which seems to have them on the main hull, albeit in line with the nacelles).

But the feasibility of having the deflector/collector be coaxial seems too obvious not to at least give a little attention to.

Perhaps the "ring of lights" around the dish on the TMP ship are actually the hydrogen intakes?

I just find the "black slat" front end of the TMP nacelles to be... well... disappointing and dull. Then again, I've never been a big fan of the TMP engines, so I'm a bit biased there.
Cary L. Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 07:50 PM   #147
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
But the feasibility of having the deflector/collector be coaxial seems too obvious not to at least give a little attention to.

Perhaps the "ring of lights" around the dish on the TMP ship are actually the hydrogen intakes?
That's EXACTLY what I was just thinking. If I was going to use a giant force beam to funnel hydrogen into a fuel tank, that's where I'd put the intakes.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2009, 09:07 PM   #148
Saquist
Commodore
 
Location: Starbase Houston
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Saquist wrote: View Post
According to this the Core did proceed down to an antimatter souce.
Produced by Paramount from this illistrator.
Strictly speaking, it proceeded FROM an antimatter source. The top of the intermix--the impulse deflection crystal--is not a deuterium injector, it's a transfer point between the intermix chamber and the impulse engines. As Probert explained once, the entire purpose of the intermix chamber is to connect the matter/antimatter reactor to all the engine parts that will make use of its power. Those same schematics also show an auxiliary fusion generator on S-Deck (feeding into the intermix chamber incase the main reactor fails) and likewise show the reactor itself on U-Deck; THAT reactor at the bottom of the shaft IS the warp core. If you don't believe me, go to sheet nine and read the synopsis for U-Deck where it says:

U-Deck is also known as the reactor deck. The reactor bay holds the main matter/antimatter reactor, twenty four antimatter storage bottles, and the bottom of vertical intermix shaft Engineering Core. Aft of the reactor bay is the retractable tractor beam, flanked by two bussard collectors, which gather interstellar hydrogen, process it, and refil all internal hydrogen tanks.
Apart from basically placing the ramscoop in the main deflector dish (as I always thought it should be) this would also mean the ship's deuterium stores are small to non-existence since at warp speed the ship runs almost entirely on material gathered from the interstellar medium.


Come to think of it, CTM, that's a tricky choice to make once you get to work on the navigational deflector. Especially considering your designs are based on this blueprint, if you put the ramscoop in the deflector, you'd have to flesh out some kind of plumbing system in the front of the engineering hull to route deuterium to where it needs to go.
AH!

I get it now.
The The Motion Picture ships weren't using Dilithium to mediate the reaction! If memory serves... The Star Trek Flight Chronology notes that anti-matter reactors existed BEFORE the discovery of Dilithium Crystals. Matter and Antimatter were brought together in an undisclosed method.

So she Dilithium was discovered they designed a system to funnel the reaction plasma Through the crystal.

Eventually the 24th century combined the Dilithium Crystal Chamber and the Reactor vessel. This must be why Warp Cores are now potentially much more unstable.

Fascinating...
Saquist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2009, 12:17 AM   #149
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Well, strictly speaking the dilithium crystals were originally conceived as a power-conversion element (as per TOS) and not as a mediator for matter and antimatter (which, technically, need no mediator since they react ON CONTACT). The TMP designs probably used dilithum as a kind of lens to help focus and control the intensely energetic products of the reactor, without which the power flow cannot be controlled and the engines become inefficient to the point of uselessness.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2009, 01:51 AM   #150
Saquist
Commodore
 
Location: Starbase Houston
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Perhaps we'll continue this in the appropriate thread.
Saquist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.