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Old July 9 2009, 12:24 PM   #46
Hermiod
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
I agree, that the mods may be a little overzealous in regards to nudity, but that's hardly a shocking example of sexism.
It's only applied in such a manner when it comes to one gender.

The best example actually comes from this thread.

T'Bonz wrote: View Post
I have had multiple complaints lately from women on our BBS about the tone in this (and sometimes other) forums. Some women feel unwelcome and uncomfortable on parts of the board, due to a very nasty tendency of some men (note the "some") to express themselves in a way that makes women uncomfortable.
I'm assuming this issue came up because of the thread about Sarah Palin's resignation that Locutus locked. The mods did their job there. It's clearly a horrible thread and it got locked. What more did the people who complained directly to T'Bonz want ?

The comments that got it locked were, arguably, trolling anyway. We have an existing rule to deal with that. Would comments that were equally offensive but not derogatory towards women have received equal priority ?
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Old July 9 2009, 12:25 PM   #47
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Maybe if someone is too big a troll to post in a trolling-allowed forum, you should boot them entirely, instead of putting them in here with these delicate flowers?
We don't decide who posts in TNZ, the TNZ mods do.

Surely you're not suggesting we allow the TNZ mods to decide who gets banned from the board.
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Old July 9 2009, 12:36 PM   #48
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Since it seems to take an act of congress (and running through the BR for consensus) before punting someone from TNZ anyway, you tell me. Instead of trying to be cute, though, how about admiting that that IS the problem, and that it's the TNZ castoffs (and then their 'enemies' that follow them around) that are causing these problems. It's not like it's subtle, or by strange, unknown posters. It's fairly obvious, by all the familiar names, and then the TNZ rabble piles on, trying to play the usual games. Allow the same ex-TNZ trolls to run around baiting long enough, not a shocker that things are going to get worse. And then once a thread has all the TNZ regulars in it, it starts to take on a TNZ tone. Shocker!

Suppose a *I'm SHOCKED at this behavior* thread at the top of the forum is easier than dealing with it, or admitting that it was pretty predictable.
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Old July 9 2009, 01:04 PM   #49
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Which TNZ castoffs have anything to do with what Bonz posted here?
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Old July 9 2009, 01:51 PM   #50
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Just read the user names for the last few pages of the thread. All either TNZ regulars, or in a few cases (TLS is the first example I saw, hard to give too many examples since TNZ banning itself is rather hush-hush and not subject to annoucement or review) those that have been kicked out or left on their own. And hell, the quotes posted? Garak, Squiggy, etc.

If you want to make it more than just that one thread, can go into the recent Obama thread, and identify more gems from TLS and Gertch. There are plenty more threads to play this game with, but let's not get bogged down in semantics, hmm? Seems pretty clear it's just a TNZ overflow problem. Posters that have been kicked out of TNZ (or couldn't handle being held to the fire for their posts) have migrated here, and set up shop. Their regular 'enemies' then follow them in (can't let them "get away with anything", of course), and the same game starts up here instead.

And not to defend any of those individual quotes, but they seem a lot worse pulled out of context the way T'Bonz posted them. Most were clearly fairly relaxed jokes, until you show just that one snippet, without the rest of the thread. I sincerely doubt Squiggy is going to rape anyone's face, for example. Bonz would have a good point if that was said to an unsuspecting poster here, but when it was Squiggy and garak going back and forth, don't think either was upset by it. And if just reading that upsets people so badly, the internet must be a scary place indeed...
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Old July 9 2009, 04:46 PM   #51
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

The solution here - obviously - is to ban Sarah Palin threads. Her natural good looks and superior work ethic throw just about every self respecting, red blooded man in to a tizzy. But whatever, we'll try it your way.

While I don't think fantasizing about a good looking political figure is sexist, and think there are way too many thin skinned people posting here who have not the faintest resemblance of a sense of humor within them, I respect the wishes of T'Bonz and the rest of the mods who are all great people that mean well and apologize for making anyone feel uncomfortable.
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Old July 9 2009, 05:10 PM   #52
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Garak wrote: View Post
The solution here - obviously - is to ban Sarah Palin threads. Her natural good looks and superior work ethic throw just about every self respecting, red blooded man in to a tizzy. But whatever, we'll try it your way.

While I don't think fantasizing about a good looking political figure is sexist, and think there are way too many thin skinned people posting here who have not the faintest resemblance of a sense of humor within them, I respect the wishes of T'Bonz and the rest of the mods who are all great people that mean well and apologize for making anyone feel uncomfortable.
Perhaps if you started employing spoiler code?
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Old July 9 2009, 05:20 PM   #53
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Instead of banning Palin threads, any way to just ban Sarah Palin from ever being elected to anything ever again instead? If she can't try to stir shit up to get attention for 2012, she'd end up quietly going away (or doing something horrible to get attention, which would justify a new thread) instead of haunting Garak's dreams
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Old July 9 2009, 07:21 PM   #54
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

T'Bonz wrote: View Post
(Warning, this is some unpleasant stuff. Be prepared before you read.)


I think "unpleasant" is an understatement. Yeesh.
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Old July 9 2009, 07:58 PM   #55
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Hermiod wrote: View Post
Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
For example?
Here you go.

Aragorn's GBotW threads get checked over with a magnifying glass just in case someone might spot the tiniest amount of breast while, at the same time, we get pictures of guys with champagne bottles narrowly covering strategic areas.
Uh, do you have those examples, not just your claim after the moderator standard was laid out?
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Old July 9 2009, 09:04 PM   #56
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Just read the user names for the last few pages of the thread. All either TNZ regulars, or in a few cases (TLS is the first example I saw, hard to give too many examples since TNZ banning itself is rather hush-hush and not subject to annoucement or review) those that have been kicked out or left on their own. And hell, the quotes posted? Garak, Squiggy, etc.
The only people kicked out of TNZ in the last several months have been CleverWombat and TLS. The former has disappeared and the latter had nothing to do with what happened here. Permabanning either of them wouldn't have done a thing to prevent this incident.

There are plenty of us on staff who think this is an overreaction. The problem we were dealing with was many women on the board and the staff saying that they feel uncomfortable in Misc and avoid it due to some of these remarks. So plenty of us thought we need to try to keep it in check. I don't know why this got extended to the discussion of politics in Misc, because that played a very small part in the problem. I'm sure Bonz will be along to explain, but I'm hoping some of this announcement can be scaled back a bit.

So, honestly, and not being "cute," I don't really get your issue. Are you saying that you want people booted from TNZ to be banned from the board? Are you saying politics should be banned from Misc?
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Old July 9 2009, 09:14 PM   #57
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Spaceman Spiff wrote: View Post

So, honestly, and not being "cute," I don't really get your issue. Are you saying that you want people booted from TNZ to be banned from the board? Are you saying politics should be banned from Misc?
I think it's more like this: If people can't behave themselves in TNZ, of all places, how can we expect them to behave themselves elsewhere on the board?
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Old July 9 2009, 09:20 PM   #58
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Closer to yes on the first question, no to the second.

Honestly, if you're such a massive troll that you can't abide by the extremely limited rules of TNZ, despite the 15 chances to shape up that you get, and get booted, I'm not sure I understand the logic that you'll be a model poster in the open areas of the board. Would love some honest opinions on that part. Seems like a logical disconnect to me. To use a bad analogy, if the prisioner in the Max Security wing can't behave himself and keep from rioting, moving him into GenPop and assuming that will fix things makes the Warden look kinda foolish, doesn't it?

Politics in Misc, in and of themselves, are fine. Just need to enforce the existing rules about trolling, flaming, and baiting that exist. Don't need more rules, topic bans, lists of banned words, or other foolishness. Like many reactionary moves here, though, we tend to over-react and blame the subject matter rather than the obvious reasons for the problem. Misc is supposed to be moderated, so if the mods just apply the existing rules, should be just fine.

Only part that is blending these two problems is when the TNZ exiles take up the same schtick in Misc, since they are banned from TNZ. They bring with them, wanted or not, more of the TNZ crowd with them, which ends up in the same behavior, by both sides. In this instance, it was pretty much all TNZ regulars in the thread (with limited participation by anyone else), so naturally it disolved into a TNZ thread pretty quickly. Old habits i guess.

Disagree with most of what Bonz said, and it appears you do too, so that's a start. Over-reaction after letting things go too far, again. Would love to see how many complaints over it, and from who, honestly. Anyone who knows any of those posters knew it wasn't intended the way Bonz portrayed it, but out of context, doesn't look great. Seems like the solution in this case would have been to close the thread, move it to TNZ, or remind the guys posting that it needed to be cleaned up. We've tended more towards random over-reaction, though. Sure in the end, this "sexism" thing will end up another unspoken rule, like the last blowup over the word "fat"...

Just enforce the current rules, and close or move threads that are getting out of control. Like we've been doing for years. Letting a thread (or several) go to shit, and then blowing up over it, is a problem to take up with the mods, not so much the posters, as there are plenty of obvious ways to deal with it.
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Old July 9 2009, 09:22 PM   #59
Hermiod
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Hermiod wrote: View Post
Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
For example?
Here you go.

Aragorn's GBotW threads get checked over with a magnifying glass just in case someone might spot the tiniest amount of breast while, at the same time, we get pictures of guys with champagne bottles narrowly covering strategic areas.
Uh, do you have those examples, not just your claim after the moderator standard was laid out?
It was some time ago no, so no.
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Old July 9 2009, 09:24 PM   #60
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Re: Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

Hoser wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
T'Bonz wrote: View Post
Wow.


J.
I know. Someone actually saw 'Hamlet 2'
So saying "I'm going to rape you, shoot your dog, and burn your house down" would be okay as long as it is a quote from the movie no one watches?
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