Misc - Several issues - Misc Posters Read!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Which TNZ castoffs have anything to do with what Bonz posted here?

[Scout101]

Just read the user names for the last few pages of the thread. All either TNZ regulars, or in a few cases (TLS is the first example I saw, hard to give too many examples since TNZ banning itself is rather hush-hush and not subject to annoucement or review) those that have been kicked out or left on their own. And hell, the quotes posted? Garak, Squiggy, etc.

If you want to make it more than just that one thread, can go into the recent Obama thread, and identify more gems from TLS and Gertch. There are plenty more threads to play this game with, but let's not get bogged down in semantics, hmm? Seems pretty clear it's just a TNZ overflow problem. Posters that have been kicked out of TNZ (or couldn't handle being held to the fire for their posts) have migrated here, and set up shop. Their regular 'enemies' then follow them in (can't let them "get away with anything", of course), and the same game starts up here instead.

And not to defend any of those individual quotes, but they seem a lot worse pulled out of context the way T'Bonz posted them. Most were clearly fairly relaxed jokes, until you show just that one snippet, without the rest of the thread. I sincerely doubt Squiggy is going to rape anyone's face, for example. Bonz would have a good point if that was said to an unsuspecting poster here, but when it was Squiggy and garak going back and forth, don't think either was upset by it. And if just reading that upsets people so badly, the internet must be a scary place indeed...

[Garak]

The solution here - obviously - is to ban Sarah Palin threads. Her natural good looks and superior work ethic throw just about every self respecting, red blooded man in to a tizzy. But whatever, we'll try it your way.

While I don't think fantasizing about a good looking political figure is sexist, and think there are way too many thin skinned people posting here who have not the faintest resemblance of a sense of humor within them, I respect the wishes of T'Bonz and the rest of the mods who are all great people that mean well and apologize for making anyone feel uncomfortable.

[trampledamage]

Garak wrote:

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The solution here - obviously - is to ban Sarah Palin threads. Her natural good looks and superior work ethic throw just about every self respecting, red blooded man in to a tizzy. But whatever, we'll try it your way.

While I don't think fantasizing about a good looking political figure is sexist, and think there are way too many thin skinned people posting here who have not the faintest resemblance of a sense of humor within them, I respect the wishes of T'Bonz and the rest of the mods who are all great people that mean well and apologize for making anyone feel uncomfortable.

Perhaps if you started employing spoiler code?

[Scout101]

Instead of banning Palin threads, any way to just ban Sarah Palin from ever being elected to anything ever again instead? If she can't try to stir shit up to get attention for 2012, she'd end up quietly going away (or doing something horrible to get attention, which would justify a new thread) instead of haunting Garak's dreams

[Goliath]

T'Bonz wrote:

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(Warning, this is some unpleasant stuff. Be prepared before you read.)

I think "unpleasant" is an understatement. Yeesh.

[Alidar Jarok]

Hermiod wrote:

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Here you go.

Aragorn's GBotW threads get checked over with a magnifying glass just in case someone might spot the tiniest amount of breast while, at the same time, we get pictures of guys with champagne bottles narrowly covering strategic areas.

Uh, do you have those examples, not just your claim after the moderator standard was laid out?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Scout101 wrote:

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Just read the user names for the last few pages of the thread. All either TNZ regulars, or in a few cases (TLS is the first example I saw, hard to give too many examples since TNZ banning itself is rather hush-hush and not subject to annoucement or review) those that have been kicked out or left on their own. And hell, the quotes posted? Garak, Squiggy, etc.

The only people kicked out of TNZ in the last several months have been CleverWombat and TLS. The former has disappeared and the latter had nothing to do with what happened here. Permabanning either of them wouldn't have done a thing to prevent this incident.

There are plenty of us on staff who think this is an overreaction. The problem we were dealing with was many women on the board and the staff saying that they feel uncomfortable in Misc and avoid it due to some of these remarks. So plenty of us thought we need to try to keep it in check. I don't know why this got extended to the discussion of politics in Misc, because that played a very small part in the problem. I'm sure Bonz will be along to explain, but I'm hoping some of this announcement can be scaled back a bit.

So, honestly, and not being "cute," I don't really get your issue. Are you saying that you want people booted from TNZ to be banned from the board? Are you saying politics should be banned from Misc?

[RoJoHen]

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

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So, honestly, and not being "cute," I don't really get your issue. Are you saying that you want people booted from TNZ to be banned from the board? Are you saying politics should be banned from Misc?

I think it's more like this: If people can't behave themselves in TNZ, of all places, how can we expect them to behave themselves elsewhere on the board?

[Scout101]

Closer to yes on the first question, no to the second.

Honestly, if you're such a massive troll that you can't abide by the extremely limited rules of TNZ, despite the 15 chances to shape up that you get, and get booted, I'm not sure I understand the logic that you'll be a model poster in the open areas of the board. Would love some honest opinions on that part. Seems like a logical disconnect to me. To use a bad analogy, if the prisioner in the Max Security wing can't behave himself and keep from rioting, moving him into GenPop and assuming that will fix things makes the Warden look kinda foolish, doesn't it?

Politics in Misc, in and of themselves, are fine. Just need to enforce the existing rules about trolling, flaming, and baiting that exist. Don't need more rules, topic bans, lists of banned words, or other foolishness. Like many reactionary moves here, though, we tend to over-react and blame the subject matter rather than the obvious reasons for the problem. Misc is supposed to be moderated, so if the mods just apply the existing rules, should be just fine.

Only part that is blending these two problems is when the TNZ exiles take up the same schtick in Misc, since they are banned from TNZ. They bring with them, wanted or not, more of the TNZ crowd with them, which ends up in the same behavior, by both sides. In this instance, it was pretty much all TNZ regulars in the thread (with limited participation by anyone else), so naturally it disolved into a TNZ thread pretty quickly. Old habits i guess.

Disagree with most of what Bonz said, and it appears you do too, so that's a start. Over-reaction after letting things go too far, again. Would love to see how many complaints over it, and from who, honestly. Anyone who knows any of those posters knew it wasn't intended the way Bonz portrayed it, but out of context, doesn't look great. Seems like the solution in this case would have been to close the thread, move it to TNZ, or remind the guys posting that it needed to be cleaned up. We've tended more towards random over-reaction, though. Sure in the end, this "sexism" thing will end up another unspoken rule, like the last blowup over the word "fat"...

Just enforce the current rules, and close or move threads that are getting out of control. Like we've been doing for years. Letting a thread (or several) go to shit, and then blowing up over it, is a problem to take up with the mods, not so much the posters, as there are plenty of obvious ways to deal with it.

[Hermiod]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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Uh, do you have those examples, not just your claim after the moderator standard was laid out?

It was some time ago no, so no.

[Dream]

Hoser wrote:

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I know. Someone actually saw 'Hamlet 2'

So saying "I'm going to rape you, shoot your dog, and burn your house down" would be okay as long as it is a quote from the movie no one watches?

[trampledamage]

RoJoHen wrote:

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I think it's more like this: If people can't behave themselves in TNZ, of all places, how can we expect them to behave themselves elsewhere on the board?

Yeah - but that's a whole separate conversation - and not connected with this issue, since the people making these problem posts are not those who have been kicked out of TNZ and are also not in response to people who have been kicked out of TNZ.

It's nothing to do with TNZ.

Some people like to push the envelope of what is acceptable. Personally I think a response of "Oh dear lord, that wasn't pleasant" from all who don't like it accompanied with, if they deem it necessary, a notification so that the moderators can come in and, if warranted, agree and tell the original poster that they've crossed the line, warnings and comments to PM etc.

I hadn't realised that it was so prevalant in Misc that people consider Misc a no-go area. But maybe I read the wrong threads.

[Spaceman Spiff]

RoJoHen wrote:

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I think it's more like this: If people can't behave themselves in TNZ, of all places, how can we expect them to behave themselves elsewhere on the board?

I get that, but it goes back to my "cute" question. If we throw out people who are removed from TNZ, then we are giving the TNZ mods the ability to permaban people.

The only way to not have that be the case is to let the people who are booted from TNZ have their trial run on the rest of the board. And again, in that aspect, the only people booted from TNZ in 2009 have been TLS and Wombat.

[tharpdevenport]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Hell, I'm a guy and found some of that stuff offensive.

Seconded. I don't even know what thread that came from, and I don't want to see.