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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old July 8 2009, 02:39 PM   #91
Ptrope
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Never cared much for Matrix either - for the same reasons.
Now I know you're just being contrary to be contrary. How could you possibly have the same reasons for disliking The Matrix, when the "controlling authority" is not a government, is not a representative organization of any type - it is a literal parasite, feeding upon its hosts, who have every right to rebel and attempt to destroy it? There is abso-f'in-lutely no comparison between the Matrix and the Alliance; the only way one could root for it against the human rebels is if one is simply a sheep looking to be led, without any personal sense of self. Or Cypher ...

That being said, yes, $30 for Firefly is well worth the price; I've spent more than that buying multiple copies and giving them to friends, all of whom have thoroughly enjoyed the series. And I disagree that "all" the characters are smartasses; of them all, I'd only say that Wash comes anywhere close to such, with Mal only occasionally so when he's in a playful mood. There's a good spectrum of personalities, of beliefs and of styles amongst the crew of Serenity - it's not the glib wackiness one saw spread through most of the characters in both Buffy and Angel, by any means. That's what most attracted me to the show: the variety of the characters. It only looks like a Western - sometimes - but it is most definitely not a "Western" any more than it's a space opera - it's just a story of displaced individuals who've come together under one roof, with only superficially-similar goals, who are trying to survive and be free, moving through an oppressive system while trying not to be a part of it. I don't consider the Alliance to be generally good - it is authoritarian and oppressive, despite any benefits it may bring to its constituents, because many of those benefits are only the compromises it must make in order to keep them pacified. Mal and his crew may be lawless, but they're not without honor and compassion, and that's what makes them great characters; not all laws are good - many of them exist only to maintain control where it's not deserved.
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Old July 8 2009, 02:51 PM   #92
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Re: Firefly worth it?

sbk1234 wrote: View Post
Do you recomend it or not?
Yes.

As others have said, it's some western thrown into space sci-fi. Good special effects, GREAT dialogue, good looking people, and mostly good stories.

That said, I wouldn't watch it expecting a masterpiece of science fiction. It's more fun adventure and light on the sci-fi. Worth watching after a few beers and kicking back to relax. You won't have to think deeply about the show. It's also quite funny.

I've watched every episode multiple times and it's my second favorite space science fiction series.


Mr. Laser Beam wrote:
The Federation clearly works, so I don't see why the Alliance couldn't.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
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Old July 8 2009, 03:22 PM   #93
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The Federation clearly works, so I don't see why the Alliance couldn't.
If DS9 proved anything, it's that the Federation only works through economic stability and a shadow organization that thinks itself to be above the law. You even try to take away either of those things, take away the veil of utopia, and it all comes crumbling down.

The Alliance had The Operative, the Federation had Section 31. The latter is no do-gooder society by any means.
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Old July 8 2009, 05:23 PM   #94
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Firefly worth it?

RandyS wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
What made Firefly compelling was that things weren't black-and-white----there were plenty of shades of grey to go around.
And that's why I couldn't enjoy it, because I generally don't believe in shades of grey.
Really? Then how do you relate to real life? That's one big "shade of gray".
Speak for yourself.

Ptrope wrote: View Post
How could you possibly have the same reasons for disliking The Matrix, when the "controlling authority" is not a government, is not a representative organization of any type - it is a literal parasite, feeding upon its hosts
Most people lived their entire lives without ever knowing there was a Matrix. They weren't slaves, most of them never even met an Agent, their lives there were exactly the same as ours are here. So what's the problem? I had a problem with Morpheus and his gang travelling all over the place and forcibly 'waking people up'. If I lived in this universe, I would willingly choose to live in the Matrix rather than the bombed out wasteland they called a real world.

Messianni wrote: View Post
The Alliance had The Operative, the Federation had Section 31. The latter is no do-gooder society by any means.
The difference is, the Operative was openly working for the normal Alliance government. Section 31 is nothing like that. It exists only for its *own* benefit, not the Federation. And while the Operative is presumably supported by the entire Alliance, Section 31 isn't accountable to anyone, not even the President. S31 is considered an enemy organization by the Federation at large, which is working to take S31 down for good. S31 is a rogue, terrorist cell, nothing more.
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Last edited by Mr. Laser Beam; July 8 2009 at 05:37 PM.
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Old July 8 2009, 06:56 PM   #95
Chrisisall
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
the Operative was openly working for the normal Alliance government.
*FAIL*
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Old July 8 2009, 06:59 PM   #96
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Well, to be fair it's clear he was acting under the Parliament's authority. However, it's also clear that he was definitely black ops. Nothing "open" about it.
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Old July 8 2009, 07:41 PM   #97
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Seeing as your location states "Los Angeles" I would suggest checking the show out on Hulu. You will find no shortage of devoted fans who will tell you how wonderful the show is (myself included), but there's nothing to beat the option of a free preview available on Hulu - link. If you do like it and decide you want to own it, keep an eye out for sales, because around holidays and other random times you can get the set for as low as $14.99.
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Old July 8 2009, 07:41 PM   #98
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Lindley wrote: View Post
Well, to be fair it's clear he was acting under the Parliament's authority.
So therefore he was working for the Alliance after all. And that's what makes him different from Section 31. They are a rogue organization only out for themselves. Despite what they may claim, they don't work for the Federation at all. Not even the President knows they exist. Not so with the Op.
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Old July 8 2009, 07:57 PM   #99
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

And that's why I couldn't enjoy it, because I generally don't believe in shades of grey.
Really? Then how do you relate to real life? That's one big "shade of gray".
Speak for yourself.
Not just for himself, that's what the real world is. You can believe otherwise, but the facts prove you dead wrong, I'm afraid. Believing a thing doesn't make it so, and denying the truth doesn't keep you from being a victim, potential or real.

Ptrope wrote: View Post
How could you possibly have the same reasons for disliking The Matrix, when the "controlling authority" is not a government, is not a representative organization of any type - it is a literal parasite, feeding upon its hosts

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Most people lived their entire lives without ever knowing there was a Matrix. They weren't slaves, most of them never even met an Agent, their lives there were exactly the same as ours are here. So what's the problem? I had a problem with Morpheus and his gang travelling all over the place and forcibly 'waking people up'. If I lived in this universe, I would willingly choose to live in the Matrix rather than the bombed out wasteland they called a real world.
I believe I know some dictators and tyrants who are looking for a few good men like you.

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." – Edmund Burke

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The difference is, the Operative was openly working for the normal Alliance government. Section 31 is nothing like that. It exists only for its *own* benefit, not the Federation. And while the Operative is presumably supported by the entire Alliance, Section 31 isn't accountable to anyone, not even the President. S31 is considered an enemy organization by the Federation at large, which is working to take S31 down for good. S31 is a rogue, terrorist cell, nothing more.
Not true - Section 31 believe they are working for the Federation at their most fundamental core - they are sidestepping the bureaucracy to do what they believe protects the Federation, even if that is protecting the Federation from itself. That doesn't make them heroes, but it's also questionable that they do so without the knowledge of someone in power. The Federation isn't trying to take them down - certain elements in Starfleet are, and they too could probably be considered 'rogues' by The Powers That Be in doing so.
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Old July 8 2009, 08:02 PM   #100
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Ptrope wrote: View Post
Not true - Section 31 believe they are working for the Federation at their most fundamental core
"...but the facts prove them dead wrong."

I believe I know some dictators and tyrants who are looking for a few good men like you.
Are you threatening me?

That doesn't make them heroes, but it's also questionable that they do so without the knowledge of someone in power.
The occasional Starfleet admiral, maybe, but nothing more than that.

The Federation isn't trying to take them down - certain elements in Starfleet are, and they too could probably be considered 'rogues' by The Powers That Be in doing so.
I doubt that. Any organization that would willingly attempt to assassinate the president of the Federation, cannot be allowed to exist *by* that Federation.
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Old July 8 2009, 08:06 PM   #101
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Re: Firefly worth it?

If that President compromises the security of the Federation, there will be Powers That Be, elected or appointed, who could and would sanction it. Again, your lack of 'gray' vision blinds you to reality; accept it - reality is not black and white. That's not even just fiction - it's fantasy. You may not like that, and that's perfectly fine, but the gray not only exists, it vastly outweighs the black and white, and is ultimately what turns the wheels.
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Old July 8 2009, 08:07 PM   #102
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Re: Firefly worth it?

^ What is your beef with the Federation, anyway? Why do you hate it so much? I thought you were a Trek fan.

Do you think the US government would do the same thing? Are you a JFK conspiracy nut?
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Old July 8 2009, 08:10 PM   #103
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Do you think the US government would do the same thing? Are you a JFK conspiracy nut?
Absolutely, and no.
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Old July 8 2009, 08:13 PM   #104
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Re: Firefly worth it?

*throws up arms in frustration* And people call ME a fatalist...
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Old July 8 2009, 08:25 PM   #105
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Re: Firefly worth it?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ What is your beef with the Federation, anyway? Why do you hate it so much? I thought you were a Trek fan.

Do you think the US government would do the same thing? Are you a JFK conspiracy nut?
Who has a beef with the Federation? They, like the USA, are probably the greatest representation of democracy and freedom in their respective universes. But that doesn't make either of them perfect, and you once again slip into a b/w mentality when you accuse someone of hating something just because they can see its flaws as well as its strengths. Just like being a Trek fan - I love Trek, but doing so doesn't blind me to its flaws, nor make me believe it must be pristine and perfect or it is unacceptable.

And, yes, I too absolutely believe the US government would do such a thing. But on the whole, I wouldn't want any other government. I can disagree with some of their methods and still believe that without the fundamental idea behind that government, the world would be a much darker place.

If everyone were content with government, if no one ever questioned it nor took steps to act, the US government and this country would not exist to provide the freedoms we enjoy. And in a Firefly context, Mal and Zoe, in particular, are the same sort of people as those who fought to bring about the USA - they just happened to be on the losing side, not the wrong one (to paraphrase our Big Damn Hero ). That's why they are "good" - a defeated hero is, nonetheless, a hero.
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