RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,597
Posts: 5,404,518
Members: 24,869
Currently online: 475
Newest member: michiko

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Gold Key Archives Vol. 2 Comic
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

Cumberbatch In War Of Roses Miniseries
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

Trek 3 Filming Location Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 6 2009, 09:24 PM   #136
Trent Roman
Rear Admiral
 
Trent Roman's Avatar
 
Location: The Palace of Pernicious Pleasures
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Thrawn wrote: View Post
2) Treason doesn't count either; the previous three NF books were published in hardcover. That makes the trade actually cheaper.
The three previous NF books were also reprinted in MMPB. That was cheaper. This isn't.

3) Romulan war doesn't count either. It was originally two MMPBs, maybe three. Making the trade, again, actually cheaper.
As I said, we have no idea what the content size of Romulan War will be, so we can't say yet whether or not it will be a ripoff.

4) You're really saying that this is annoying you now? In the Ordover years, he routinely divided one story across several MMPB books. THAT was paying twice as much for essentially the same content.
Hey, I complained about those too.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
__________________
Obdurants and Amusings - Behind the Shampoo Curtain
Trent Roman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 09:46 PM   #137
Allyn Gibson
Vice Admiral
 
Allyn Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: South Pennsyltucky
View Allyn Gibson's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Allyn Gibson Send a message via Yahoo to Allyn Gibson
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
book stores are idiots if they think trades are better. bigger books take up more shelf space, means fewer copies, means fewer sales. even if they do charge more for a TPB. someone could go in looking for Treason and intend to buy something else and not find Treason, then decide buggerit and buy nothing.
Having worked in retail management for most of my adult life, I have some insight on this.

There are two metrics that almost any retail business looks at.

Dollars per hour. Dollars per transaction.

Bookstores like trades over mass-markets because selling a trade is going to mean better stats on both of these. A hardcover is almost never an impulse buy. A mass-market is often an impulse buy. A trade falls somewhere in between.

Yes, some people who would buy a mass-market won't buy the trade. That's basic economics. There's a point where a certain percentage of buyers drop out of the market. So, yes, trades will see lower sales. However, the profit on a trade is higher than the profit on a mass-market. So a publisher can take lower sales, yet make more money on the trade.

Bookstores also know that trades sell less than mass-markets. But because of the higher profit margin, they can sell less, maintain (or increase) their profit, and maintain better numbers on the dollars-per-hour and dollars-per-transaction metrics.
Allyn Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 09:59 PM   #138
Man of Steel
Fleet Captain
 
Man of Steel's Avatar
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Send a message via AIM to Man of Steel Send a message via Yahoo to Man of Steel
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Trades Smades. Who cares? Destiny was a trilogy and that sold as a mass market so why should Romulan War be any different?
__________________
"To Thine Own Self Be True" - Willie Shakespeare.
Man of Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:12 PM   #139
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
book stores are idiots if they think trades are better. bigger books take up more shelf space, means fewer copies, means fewer sales. even if they do charge more for a TPB. someone could go in looking for Treason and intend to buy something else and not find Treason, then decide buggerit and buy nothing.
Having worked in retail management for most of my adult life, I have some insight on this.

There are two metrics that almost any retail business looks at.

Dollars per hour. Dollars per transaction.

Bookstores like trades over mass-markets because selling a trade is going to mean better stats on both of these. A hardcover is almost never an impulse buy. A mass-market is often an impulse buy. A trade falls somewhere in between.

Yes, some people who would buy a mass-market won't buy the trade. That's basic economics. There's a point where a certain percentage of buyers drop out of the market. So, yes, trades will see lower sales. However, the profit on a trade is higher than the profit on a mass-market. So a publisher can take lower sales, yet make more money on the trade.

Bookstores also know that trades sell less than mass-markets. But because of the higher profit margin, they can sell less, maintain (or increase) their profit, and maintain better numbers on the dollars-per-hour and dollars-per-transaction metrics.
This all makes sense. But what changes when you're dealing with a very niche product like Star Trek? How many readers can Pocket afford to bleed by making this move before things become unprofitable?

My wife asked me if I wanted New Frontier: Treason last night while we were at the bookstore. My simple answer was, "not at that price" and picked up "The Time Ships" by Stephen Baxter.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:16 PM   #140
Allyn Gibson
Vice Admiral
 
Allyn Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: South Pennsyltucky
View Allyn Gibson's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Allyn Gibson Send a message via Yahoo to Allyn Gibson
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

BillJ wrote: View Post
My wife asked me if I wanted New Frontier: Treason last night while we were at the bookstore. My simple answer was, "not at that price" and picked up "The Time Ships" by Stephen Baxter.
The Time Ships? Good choice.

As for how much audience Pocket can afford to bleed if/when they make the jump from mass to trade, only their accountants know for sure.
Allyn Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:25 PM   #141
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
My wife asked me if I wanted New Frontier: Treason last night while we were at the bookstore. My simple answer was, "not at that price" and picked up "The Time Ships" by Stephen Baxter.
The Time Ships? Good choice.

As for how much audience Pocket can afford to bleed if/when they make the jump from mass to trade, only their accountants know for sure.
About one hundred pages in. It is a great read so far.

Hopefully Pocket knows what they are doing with the print line.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:29 PM   #142
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Thrawn wrote: View Post

4) You're really saying that this is annoying you now? In the Ordover years, he routinely divided one story across several MMPB books. THAT was paying twice as much for essentially the same content. Recently, books have been far longer, giving way more content for the same price.
At least that way I could gauge whether the content was worth the price. Buy one book and if I didn't like it I wasn't on the hook for the price of the other one or two.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:31 PM   #143
Dimesdan
Rear Admiral
 
Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dimesdan
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

I rather like Trade sized books, to be honest, they arn't that much bigger than a Mass Market anyway. As for price, the last Star Trek Trade I bought, Shards and Shadows was £9.99, where as the last Star Trek Mass Market, Full Circle was £6.99, ok, yes it's a bit more expensive, but not twice as much!
Dimesdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:40 PM   #144
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

I'm just not that comfortable with the floppiness of them - they don't feel as solid as hardbacks or MMPBs. It's probably just a 'me' thing, but I don't like it - I consider it fine for anthologies like Myriad Universes and the various anniversary books for the different serieses, but for a novel, I'd prefer either hardback or MMPB.
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:47 PM   #145
Thrawn
Rear Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

BillJ wrote: View Post
This all makes sense. But what changes when you're dealing with a very niche product like Star Trek? How many readers can Pocket afford to bleed by making this move before things become unprofitable?

My wife asked me if I wanted New Frontier: Treason last night while we were at the bookstore. My simple answer was, "not at that price" and picked up "The Time Ships" by Stephen Baxter.
In all fairness, if you buy from amazon.com, the trades are only $3 more than the MMPBs. A lot of non-Trek MMPBs are as high as $10 anyway, and the trades are only $10.88. $2.88 doesn't mean a lot to me, and .88 means even less.

But if that's a dealbreaker for you, whatever.

It's also, as far as I know, an open question whether or not the trade novels will be republished as MMPBs.
Thrawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:50 PM   #146
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Thrawn wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
This all makes sense. But what changes when you're dealing with a very niche product like Star Trek? How many readers can Pocket afford to bleed by making this move before things become unprofitable?

My wife asked me if I wanted New Frontier: Treason last night while we were at the bookstore. My simple answer was, "not at that price" and picked up "The Time Ships" by Stephen Baxter.
In all fairness, if you buy from amazon.com, the trades are only $3 more than the MMPBs. A lot of non-Trek MMPBs are as high as $10 anyway, and the trades are only $10.88. $2.88 doesn't mean a lot to me, and .88 means even less.

But if that's a dealbreaker for you, whatever.

It's also, as far as I know, an open question whether or not the trade novels will be republished as MMPBs.
Not everyone shops at Amazon! I actually like to inspect my merchandise before purchasing it. Guess that makes me old school. And yes $2.88 is a deal breaker if it is presenting the same amount of material.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:50 PM   #147
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
I hope they tank. I think TPB are an abomination and should go away forever.
Remind us you said that when you hit 50 and your eyestrain is wishing for bigger size font.
I'm 46 now and I don't have any trouble with smallish size print.
__________________
Jon
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:53 PM   #148
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
book stores are idiots if they think trades are better.
Their market research tells them that stocking and selling trades is more profitable.

But one look at current bookshop formats tells us that they've given up catering to certain groups of customers, knowing that they'll buy their regular "must-have" book items online. Many bookshops are now stocked prominently with vaguely book-related toys, games, action figures, book lights, Tshirts and jigsaw puzzles. Trade paperbacks fit this range of impulse-buy, gift-giving items.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:54 PM   #149
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

JWolf wrote: View Post
I'm 46 now and I don't have any trouble with smallish size print.
I'm 50 - and at 46 small font didn't worry me. Good luck.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Not everyone shops at Amazon! I actually like to inspect my merchandise before purchasing it. Guess that makes me old school.
Exactly. And part of a steadily reducing minority. SF readers and music soundtrack collectors have been trailblazers in the online-buying revolution.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:56 PM   #150
JWolf
Commodore
 
JWolf's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: 2009 Fall Book Preview With Covers

Christopher wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
If Trek goes Trade, I hope nobody buys them. I hope they tank.
Oh, that's a nice sentiment to express on a forum frequented by people whose livelihood depends on people buying Trek books! So you want us all to go broke just because you don't like a particular format? How compassionate of you.

And if, as Defcon says, you mostly read eBooks, why should you care whether the hardcopy books are in MMPB or trade?
I'm not saying to stop Star Trek books. but if they go trade where it's not needed, then I do think sales will drop as people who dislike trade will not purchase or not purchase as much. Also given the way eBook prices are at present, trade will increase eBook prices as well. So overall, going trade where trade is not needed is a lose-lose situation overall. I do understand trade when the word count is high enough. But otherwise, forget it.
__________________
Jon
JWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
book covers, ent, fall lineup

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.