Star Trek TNG Remastered?

[Gep Malakai]

trevanian wrote:

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This is the TNG forum, not a FanFiction thread.

If you've got work done by quality artists--like the folks who worked on Trek XI--Dennis is right. On the other hand, you can also get images like the one ST-One posted, which, were it not for your statement that you'd seen the model elements as part of your job, I would've thought came from some kind of fan-film.

[trevanian]

Gep Malakai wrote:

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If you've got work done by quality artists--like the folks who worked on Trek XI--Dennis is right. On the other hand, you can also get images like the one ST-One posted, which, were it not for your statement that you'd seen the model elements as part of your job, I would've thought came from some kind of fan-film.

Didn't see it as part of a job, just in a book I bought. It IS from the last SW prequel, ain't it? Same company that did Abrams' thing?

[ST-One]

Gep Malakai wrote:

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If you've got work done by quality artists--like the folks who worked on Trek XI--Dennis is right. On the other hand, you can also get images like the one ST-One posted, which, were it not for your statement that you'd seen the model elements as part of your job, I would've thought came from some kind of fan-film.

Well, it's an actual image from ROTS.
And, yes, there is a huge quality difference between what ILM did on that film and what they did on Star Trek.

[Gep Malakai]

trevanian wrote:

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It IS from the last SW prequel, ain't it? Same company that did Abrams' thing?

ILM, yes. They just did a much better job in Trek XI.

[Captain Fine]

Gep Malakai wrote:

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ILM, yes. They just did a much better job in Trek XI.

I'd guess because a) there's a lot less of it to do (Abrams' wanted the movie to feel as REAL as possible) and b) they had waaay more time to tweak it and make sure it was perfect

[ST-One]

Captain Fine wrote:

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I'd guess because a) there's a lot less of it to do (Abrams' wanted the movie to feel as REAL as possible) and b) they had waaay more time to tweak it and make sure it was perfect

As far as I know the film was finished for its original release-date in December '08.

[jefferiestubes8]

Captain Fine wrote:

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Hmm sounds promising no??? Is this quote accurate/reliable?

It was a TV series on a budget and a TV schedule not a feature film. I highly doubt 22 episodes each season had notes that were meticulously kept about the footage and the transfer logs. Nor did they most likely keep the 1" videotapes or 3/4" dubs of a timecode/keycode burn-in window roughcut.
We know Paramount saved the 35mm camera negative from the above post since Michael Okuda confirmed that with Paramount but that is a lot of footage.

[jefferiestubes8]

AuntKate brought up something on another thread about a memorable episode

AuntKate wrote:

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the TNG episode "Genesis" scared my boys to death (they were about 10 and 7). Scared me, too!

Memory Alpha mentions:

* This episode won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Individual Achievement in Sound Mixing for a Drama Series; it was also nominated for Outstanding Individual Achievement in Sound Editing for a Series and Outstanding Individual Achievement in Makeup for a Series.

This is the only episode of the series directed by Gates McFadden (Beverly Crusher), and the first episode of Star Trek directed by a female cast member.

even though:

production work was hindered by the California earthquake of 1994, and McFadden did not have sufficient time to produce her own "cut" of the episode as a result).

I wonder what a 'director's cut' would look like?
Perhaps if TNG does eventually get a TNG-R a few episodes will get revisited and get a 'director's cut' if Paramount/CBS and Gates McFadden were interested in doing it. That itself would raise the price for remastering those episodes as:
1. they may increase running time of the episode
2. music cues would no longer be the same
3. would need additional sound FX
4. would need to have a complete remix on the sound for all scenes changed and music, FX added.
5. they would need to retelecine more of the original camera negative for the director to be able to look at (even if just in standard definition) to do a new edit, and then the selects would have to be retelecined at high definition to conform to the new edit.

Perhaps if a fan-collective of 8 episodes were done as a test in HD for Blu-ray it could be director's cuts of a few? Would that be enough to get people to buy them in HD?

[Malcolm Orr]

jefferiestubes8 wrote:

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It was a TV series on a budget and a TV schedule not a feature film. I highly doubt 22 episodes each season had notes that were meticulously kept about the footage and the transfer logs. Nor did they most likely keep the 1" videotapes or 3/4" dubs of a timecode/keycode burn-in window roughcut.
We know Paramount saved the 35mm camera negative from the above post since Michael Okuda confirmed that with Paramount but that is a lot of footage.

Yet they were able to find the exact scene they wanted from Menage a Trois for scanning for the finale of Enterprise, so presumably they are indexed in some way...

[Butters]

So a lot of fans think TNG would transfer to HD quite adequately without a lucas style interference of the effects, and I don't buy it. And then I watch "Thine Own Self" on Virgin 1 and I have to ask what exactly is being smoked? Data has his face torn off, flashing lights aplenty. Now, in all honesty, how can anyone defend these effects? His face is swollen to accomodate the interior detail but it looks terrible. Really terrible. OK for the day maybe, but the day as passed.

How could anyone in charge of a HD release let this episode pass without a major rework and expect to find further work?

To those who argue the original effects are adequate, I say, get real, and watch the series again. Much of it stood up on a 12"" black and white portable in the late eighties, but now? Not even close to acceptable.

[jefferiestubes8]

Butters wrote:

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How could anyone in charge of a HD release let this episode pass without a major rework and expect to find further work?

To those who argue the original effects are adequate, I say, get real, and watch the series again. Much of it stood up on a 12"" black and white portable in the late eighties, but now? Not even close to acceptable.

I agree and just like TOS-R if it happens we'll see TNG-R. Visual effects would be redone in CGI. Physical live-action effects may not be redone though. It would be up to the producers. It's purly a cost thing and there WILL BE a budget they have to keep to.

There a 7 seasons. Before committing they may decide to do a fan collective type of thing to see about cost and time to do say 8 episodes before making the decision to commit resources to the entire season 1.

[Hober Mallow]

Butters wrote:

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So a lot of fans think TNG would transfer to HD quite adequately without a lucas style interference of the effects, and I don't buy it. And then I watch "Thine Own Self" on Virgin 1 and I have to ask what exactly is being smoked? Data has his face torn off, flashing lights aplenty. Now, in all honesty, how can anyone defend these effects?

Simple. Those are the FX of the show. The horribly unconvincing plane flying at the beginning of Casablanca wasn't changed when it went to blu-ray because that's part of the original movie. I'm against changing things for the sake of changing things; the whole point of doing HD transfers is to preserve the original content, not change anything. No colorizing movies for me, no crazy digital changes just because we can. The HD transfer of the Twilight Zone changes absolutely none of the many silly-looking FX.

However, that argument doesn't even matter. The TNG remaster folks would have no choice but to change the FX. TNG will never get a proper HD transfer without all new FX. So your argument and mine is neither here nor there.

[Destructor]

Hober Mallow wrote:

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However, that argument doesn't even matter. The TNG remaster folks would have no choice but to change the FX. TNG will never get a proper HD transfer without all new FX. So your argument and mine is neither here nor there.

Well... redoing digital effects would have no bearing on practical effects, such as Data's facial damage in Thine Own Self.

[jefferiestubes8]

Destructor wrote:

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Well... redoing digital effects would have no bearing on practical effects, such as Data's facial damage in Thine Own Self.

The 35mm resolution transferred to 1080p would show practical effects very sharply. It also shows flaws of props and makeup that do not hold up beyond 500lines of resolution.
The effects quality in question for many posts on this thread is the early CG visual effects that do not hold up very well in the first few seasons.

[Hober Mallow]

Something just occurred to me.

Generations is about to be released on blu-ray. I had forgotten that there was one TV series stock shot of the ship reused, yet it didn't look like crap on the big screen and will presumeably be in high definition on the blu-ray release. Doesn't this imply there are still film masters of the ship shots at least?