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Old July 3 2009, 01:08 AM   #16
Admiral_Young
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Lois didn't find out about Clark and Superman until Clark revealed his secret to her in the issue that he proposed as well...can't remember what book it was in.
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Old July 3 2009, 03:23 AM   #17
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

theenglish wrote: View Post
The comics don't need Chloe. Chloe in Smallville, filled the role that Lana played in the comic books, the she spent some time in Lois' role, and now she is playing Oracle. There is no original character of Chloe Sullivan as her personality is simply derived from pre-existing ones. All this is nothing against Allison Mack, of course.
I'm sorry to say this is pretty much true.
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Old July 3 2009, 03:36 AM   #18
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Oh I know that the comics don't need Chloe...it's just that with all the recent retconning that Geoff has been up to during his run I thought it would be the perfect time to introduce Chloe in Secret Origin and then have her in the main books when he comes back to Action Comics after Blackest Night is finished next year. I have to agree that aspects of her character are borrowed from others in the books but that doesn't mean that they can't fit her in anyways at some point.
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Old July 3 2009, 04:04 AM   #19
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Lois didn't find out about Clark and Superman until Clark revealed his secret to her in the issue that he proposed as well...can't remember what book it was in.
Action Comics #662
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Old July 3 2009, 06:24 AM   #20
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Thanks Broc...
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Old July 3 2009, 06:47 AM   #21
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

As far as Allison Mack's likeness goes, comics and other media have been side stepping that issue for decades. One of the biggest examples is The Real Ghostbusters which changed the character appearances to sidestep likeness rights disputes (mostly from Bill Murray if I remember correctly).

But has it been conclusively stated by official sources that Allison Mack is the problem? I would have thought DC is avoiding the issue because Chloe Sullivan is a creation of Miles Millar and Alfred Gough. If DC was to fully insert Chloe into the Superman mythos, then they would be stuck paying those guys extra for every appearance the character makes in any media from then forward. There's no way around it in the modern creator's rights culture, and the bean counters at DC probably don't want to even start an expense like that when they don't feel they have to (especially given the battles they've already got with things like Superboy).
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Old July 3 2009, 07:04 PM   #22
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

I agree with every Temporalflux said.

Plus there likely another factor. There is probably debate within Dc about how much they want to be tied to this show. Some of Chloe's fans seem to want not just a version of her but something that shows this particular character and all her backstory survives into Clark's future. When the show itself has constantly teased that she could die. What if DC had introduced her as Jimmy's girlfriend...later to see him retconned to his brother????
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Old July 3 2009, 07:31 PM   #23
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

The only official explanation I've heard is from Busiek, that is why I was surprised to learn about the likeness thing, I'd never read about that before.
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Old July 3 2009, 08:06 PM   #24
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Thanks Broc...
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Old July 4 2009, 05:06 AM   #25
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

spocksbrain wrote: View Post
The real question is this: how many times do I need to read the origin of Superman?
In this case, this origin story is much needed. From what I can piece together, in the early part of this decade DC slowly started to move back towards the Silver Age, slowly retconning things to how they were Pre-Crisis (all of which, it seems, has increased with Dan Didio in charge). DC tried at first to introduce the idea in 2001 that the Krypton from Byrne's Man of Steel revamp of the origin in 1986 was a fabrication and that the Silver Age version was the true one.

I'm not sure if DC intended to go with this or if the ultimate resolution (the Silver Age Krytpon was a lie intended to trap Superman) was planned all along. Either way, I view this as the first attempt to do away with MoS.

Then DC started releasing the 12 issue origin story, Birthright, which at the time was lauded as Superman's new origin (updated for the 21st Century). It retconned some of Byrne's changes (Clark and Lex knew each other from Smallville, Clark is a dork/socially awkward, etc.), though DC maintained that it was supposed to "compliment" Byrne's story and fit next to it, not replace it.

DC wavered on the issue of whether or not Birthright was the official origin, though Superman #200 put Kal-El in the position of being in some kind of time-vortex with two possible ways home. One would restore his Man of Steel origin, one would make Birthright his origin. He chose the latter, but, again, DC did not offically state that was the origin, but kept promising that eventually everything would make sense.

After the Post-Crisis Supergirl's series ended, we were introduced to Kara Zor-El, Superman's cousin, who became Supergirl. While not a retcon of MoS, it did do away with the edict of the time, that Superman was the absolute last Kryptonian (which is further out the window now with 100,000 Kyrptonians from Argo City and Kandor now inhabiting New Krypton).

Then Infinite Crisis hit and, again, seemingly did away with Man of Steel. Though his origin was not re-done, per se, the following bits were slowly added to Superman's backstory:
  • His powers developed quicker, and news reports from the time he was a teenager point to a super boy in Smallville.
  • Kal-El was born on Krypton and sent as an infant to Earth
  • Lex Luthor, before settling in Metropolis and becoming a business tycon spent some time in Smallville.
  • As a young boy Superman was brought 1,000 years into the future and had many adventures with the Legion of Super-Heroes.
  • Krypton is less sterile and more like the Silver Age Krypton
(and so on).

So, long story short, this origin tale has been necessary for years, at least due to DC's constant tweaking of Superman's history. While I grew up with MoS and prefer it, in some ways, to the Silver Age origin (which, again, this new origin seems to be fashioned after), there has been too many changes to Superman's back story for them to continue to ignore it. For better or for worse, this origin story is needed to clear up the mess DC editorial has made for the better part of the decade.

I like Geoff as a storyteller, but I am not happy with the changes to Superman. I felt the MoS origin was logical and for the most part made a Superman I wanted to read about. I did like the idea of a Krypton which had become sterile and for whom technology had taken away their humanity (Kryptonanity?). I think this gave writers an interesting angle to draw on, the idea of Superman seeing how we use technology and how we could go down the same path Krypton did (which was actually something some of the writers dealt with in terms of cloning).

I also think the Byrne/Wolfman version of Lex is the best version. Something has been lost now that the character is out of the boardroom and hiding out.

I hope by the end of the mini-series Superman's origin is straightened out and even more, I hope it is as a result of a good story. As long as the story is good and the changes are there for a reason, I'll be content, if not happy.
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Old July 4 2009, 10:44 AM   #26
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

I love the changes that Geoff has made to Superman. They're really damn close to my own fan fic ideas for a rebooted Superman. Again though....Secret Origins is really retconning Clark Kent's youth not Supermans origins. It really should be called Clark Kent Secret Origins. This is my point that this is a perfect opportunity to introduce Chloe since it's already retconning Clark's youth in Smallville. There will never be a more perfect chance to do this...also I think it is going to show Clark as a member of the Legion which was established in Superman and the Legion of Superheroes.
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Old July 4 2009, 12:57 PM   #27
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Until and unless DC starts publishing a Superboy title, with the adventures of Superman when he was a boy, I view the point from which he was born through the time he became Superman as tied to his origin. So, whether it's his time on Krypton or in Smallville, it's all the same to me.

And, honestly, unless DC does plan on telling more stories past this mini-series about Clark's life in Smallville, I don't see the point in adding Chloe, because I don't believe she has a role in the adult Superman's life, other than to become just another of the long list of secondary characters which are largely ignored. In his past, she could be the stand in for Lois, the one who doesn't know his secret identity (assuming the MoS origin where he tells Lana holds true).

DC's only just brought Cat Grant, Ron Troupe, and Steve Lombard back from relative limbo (Cat and Ron having spent less time there than Steve). Bibbo and the Guardian are back also, but since "New Krypton" ended, we've not see the staff of the Daily Planet at all. Where would Chloe fit into that? Or should she be included in Geoff's story, reference once in a while, but not added to the regular cast?
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Old July 5 2009, 05:11 AM   #28
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Well...this is an interesting question. I personally would have established Chloe similar to her Smallville character and playing the part of Clark's sidekick (Lana still is aware of Supes identity so that part of MOS is still intact) the only change that I would make by bringing her into the comic cast is my fan fic idea of having her become the head of Checkmate. In fact in the fac fic Chloe leaves her "civilian" life and organizes Checkmate to provide assistance and oversight of the metahuman community. When Clark finds out he's not very pleased but he comes to understand her decision is due to her experience helping Clark in the past as Superboy she wants to use it to help the other heroes.

As for the temporary excludance of the Daily Planet staff...it makes sense since the main character that they're there to support isn't there at the moment so story telling wise it dtoesn't make much sense to have them around. Once World of New Krypton concludes and Geoff returns to Action Comics to set up his big Superman story for next summer they'll be back.
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Old July 5 2009, 05:30 AM   #29
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
The only official explanation I've heard is from Busiek, that is why I was surprised to learn about the likeness thing, I'd never read about that before.
To be honest nor had I. Previously I had been told they always cut her from the storylines because they weren't sure what Smallville would do with her.
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Old July 5 2009, 06:02 AM   #30
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Re: Chloe Sullivan Should Be Introduced in Superman Secret Orign

I want an Allison Mack photo cover some comic Chloe is in.
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