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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old June 29 2009, 07:44 PM   #1
Chaos Descending
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The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Of course, I don't have a particular preference towards either interpretation, but viewing Gallifrey Base it seems that some people are violently opposed to the idea that they might be the same guy.

Can anyone explain to me why they absolutely MUST NOT be the same Time Lord?

Feel free to argue evidence from any of the various novel ranges, but be aware that I don't accept any of it as canonical from a TV series standpoint.

Cheers.
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Old June 29 2009, 07:49 PM   #2
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

I think part of it comes from the fact that in The War Games The Doctor doesn't seem to know or recognize The War Chief as anyone beyond being a Time Lord, whereas it's established during The Third Doctor era (particularly in Terror of the Autons and The Sea Devils) that The Doctor has known The Master for a long time.
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Old June 29 2009, 08:08 PM   #3
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

That's a great point.

Even in Terror of the Autons when the Doctor is warned by the well-attired Time Lord about the Master, the Doctor was clearly familiar with him, but considered him to be fairly harmless. I wonder if the original intent was for the Master to be a more deadly incarnation of the Monk? Based on the Third Doctor's initial assessment, it would follow.

Of course, I do NOT think that the Monk was the Master.
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Old June 29 2009, 08:14 PM   #4
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Wait a minute... how long has it been since you have seen The War Games? It's been awhile for me but I seen to remember at least one of the two, The War Chief or The Doctor, recognizing the other personally.

I might well be wrong.
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Old June 29 2009, 09:26 PM   #5
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

I've always thought that maybe The Monk and The Master are the same person...
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Old June 29 2009, 10:00 PM   #6
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

The wrote: View Post
I've always thought that maybe The Monk and The Master are the same person...
I think there's less likely of this than of the War Chief and the Master being the same person.
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Old June 29 2009, 10:05 PM   #7
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

^Why?
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Old June 29 2009, 10:13 PM   #8
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

A couple reasons.

For one, the Monk wasn't particularly bright. In fact, he was sort of a dopey buffoon, whereas the Master is a genius, a true rival to the Doctor. Second, the Master and the Doctor attended the Academy together. The Doctor and the Monk were completely unacquainted with each other.
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Old June 29 2009, 10:18 PM   #9
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Hmmm. I've always been able to get around that in my head for some reason. But, I can understand your reasoning. I always wondered what happened to the guy, though. He was the first recurring Time Lord nemesis for The Doctor, wasn't he? He appeared twice, right?
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Old June 29 2009, 10:22 PM   #10
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Yes, he was in The Time Meddler and The Dalek's Masterplan.

Of course, the fluid nature of continuity in Doctor Who being what it is, I'd never be surprised if future producers of the series reveal that the Master, the Monk, AND the War Chief were all the same guy.
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Old June 29 2009, 11:36 PM   #11
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

The Master is the Rani

*runs*

Okay seriously, I was going to write this one off, but it's certainly not impossible.

Given it was over a decade and a half since I've seen it, I'm going to have to wait until I get my hands on the DVD before I can really formulate an opinion.

Hmm
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Old June 29 2009, 11:47 PM   #12
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
Wait a minute... how long has it been since you have seen The War Games? It's been awhile for me but I seen to remember at least one of the two, The War Chief or The Doctor, recognizing the other personally.

I might well be wrong.
It's been at least a year now, so I couldn't swear to it, but I don't think you recall correctly. They recognized each other as fellow Time Lords, but that was it.
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Old June 30 2009, 12:57 AM   #13
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

The wrote: View Post
Hmmm. I've always been able to get around that in my head for some reason. But, I can understand your reasoning. I always wondered what happened to the guy, though. He was the first recurring Time Lord nemesis for The Doctor, wasn't he? He appeared twice, right?
And it's unlikely we'll see him; The Monk is a character that's off-limits right now. I know of two Short Trips stories that either didn't happen or were drastically altered because Dennis Spooner's estate refused permission for the character's use.
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Old June 30 2009, 01:02 AM   #14
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
The wrote: View Post
Hmmm. I've always been able to get around that in my head for some reason. But, I can understand your reasoning. I always wondered what happened to the guy, though. He was the first recurring Time Lord nemesis for The Doctor, wasn't he? He appeared twice, right?
And it's unlikely we'll see him; The Monk is a character that's off-limits right now. I know of two Short Trips stories that either didn't happen or were drastically altered because Dennis Spooner's estate refused permission for the character's use.
There goes the rumors about Patrick Stewart playing him in one of the specials or series 5.
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Old June 30 2009, 01:02 AM   #15
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

So, the character isn't owned by the BBC?
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