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Old June 26 2009, 09:26 PM   #16
Nerroth
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Re: life in the empires

It might be on something of a tangent to the post-1979 TV/Movie trekverse, but the version of the Klingon and Romulan Empires seen in the Star Fleet Universe are fleshed out in various RPG sourcebooks... though the book for the Federation proper would be nice to see eventually.


In their setting, the Klingons are the more centrally-organised society, with varying populations within the capital complex, on major colonies, and in other parts of the Empire - as well as on colony worlds licenced from the Far Stars Duchy of the Klingon-allied Lyran Star Empire.

Also, the Empire is shown as having several subject races, of varying status and position within the Empire - from the bookish Dunkars to the radiation-poisoned Cromargs and the radiation-tolerant Vudar.

Generally, subject worlds are allowed to run much of their own affairs, so long as they pay their tributes to the Empire, don't try to rebel, and provide a steady stream of recruits for the Deep Space Fleet.

(However, the DSF restricts most subject race crewmen to serving positions as Marines, technicians, and so forth - and even keep security stations on each Fleet ship in order to watch for potential disloyalty.)


The Romulans, in contrast, have no formal subject races in that setting - their 'Remans' are identical to Romulans and live on a less harsh world than the Remus seen on screen.

Well, aside from one little mishap involving the USS MacArthur, that is...


However, there are a small number of what the Federation call 'Suppressed Races' - worlds which are at varying stages of development, but which the Romulans have not formally subjugated outright.

(By the time the Romulans discovered them, there were more immediate priorities for the Empire to trouble itself with.)


Neither place would be as nice to live in as the Federation, Inter-Stellar Concordium, or other, more pluralist societies in the universe - but as seen on TV during the Dominion War, the needs of survival meant that the rival powers had to co-operate when an external invader poised on conquest and subjugation rolls in...
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Last edited by Nerroth; June 26 2009 at 09:36 PM.
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Old June 27 2009, 01:17 AM   #17
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: life in the empires

Thor Damar wrote: View Post
^Excellent, another loyal servant of the Union!
Welcome citizen.

I do wonder about the status of our client worlds and their relationship with the rest of the Union, are they as... troubled as Bajor or do they enjoy a more equal and productive role in the empire?
Indeed--that is also something I have wondered about. Perhaps the time of first contact has something to do with it as well? Understand I do not speak ill of the Union at any stage in its history ( ) --but a world encountered when the Union has spread as far as it has most likely would be treated differently from one encountered when the Union was newer...
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Old June 27 2009, 01:24 AM   #18
Thor Damar
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Re: life in the empires

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Thor Damar wrote: View Post
^Excellent, another loyal servant of the Union!
Welcome citizen.

I do wonder about the status of our client worlds and their relationship with the rest of the Union, are they as... troubled as Bajor or do they enjoy a more equal and productive role in the empire?
Indeed--that is also something I have wondered about. Perhaps the time of first contact has something to do with it as well? Understand I do not speak ill of the Union at any stage in its history ( ) --but a world encountered when the Union has spread as far as it has most likely would be treated differently from one encountered when the Union was newer...

Well, there was a ...certain amount of unpleasantness due to our early resource requirements and no doubt harsh measures had to be taken but I hope that many worlds in the Union were integrated more successfully than Dukat's failure on Bajor.

(sadly we never got to see the whole Union so we cannot judge its internal affairs accurately)
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Old June 27 2009, 01:45 AM   #19
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Re: life in the empires

Well, as the token Maquis here, I can attest that life on the former Federation colonies annexed by Cardassia could be quite dismal. We certainly didn't fare quite as poorly as Bajor, but the Cardassians were no friend to us.
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Old June 27 2009, 01:52 AM   #20
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: life in the empires

Vulcan Princess wrote: View Post
Well, as the token Maquis here, I can attest that life on the former Federation colonies annexed by Cardassia could be quite dismal. We certainly didn't fare quite as poorly as Bajor, but the Cardassians were no friend to us.
Blowing things up is a rather odd way to cultivate a friendship, now, don't you think?





( )
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Old June 27 2009, 02:30 AM   #21
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Re: life in the empires

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Vulcan Princess wrote: View Post
Well, as the token Maquis here, I can attest that life on the former Federation colonies annexed by Cardassia could be quite dismal. We certainly didn't fare quite as poorly as Bajor, but the Cardassians were no friend to us.
Blowing things up is a rather odd way to cultivate a friendship, now, don't you think?





( )
Indeed, and we provided re-education centers free of change, not to mention our unparalleled legal and educational system which we exported to all the worlds that have been welcomed into the Union.

And of course there is the benevolent protection of the Central Command...
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Old June 27 2009, 04:43 AM   #22
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Re: life in the empires

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I can't imagine the Federation would force Membership upon anyone, nor can I imagine that the Federation would accept as a Member State any state which has conquered a foreign population. The UFP would almost certainly demand that any new potential Member State liberate any conquered worlds before joining the Federation.
That would surely depend on how much the subjugating world has to offer as a member of the Federation. Politics is the art of compromise.

I imagine the subjugated worlds would count as three-fifths in determining representation on the council.
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Old June 28 2009, 07:51 AM   #23
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Re: life in the empires

Jasper Sierra wrote: View Post
I wonder if Star Trek will ever have an empire that expands to the point that it becomes too large to be ruled by one central government and then fall into halves or pieces like the Roman empire.
They did that already with the Maquis. Sort of.

I also am curious that if Romulus was rejoined Vulcan, would the their enslaved worlds be forced into the Federation, or would they be given the opportunity to decide for themselves?
In that remarkable situation, I'm pretty sure the Vulcanoid Union would go on a case by case basis, making the most logical choice for each of their former satellite planets. The Romulan Empire might break up the same way as the Soviet Union, with one or two small planets remaining under relatively temporary but necessary occupation until they stabilized (similar too but less controversial than Chechnya).
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Old June 28 2009, 08:18 AM   #24
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Re: life in the empires

Federation - Futuristic Orwellian Retirement Home with 1960s-era Cold Warrior Starfleet.

Romulan Empire - Evil, because living in it isn't like living in a bizarre retirement home.

Cardassian Union - See above.

Klingon Empire - See above.
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Old June 28 2009, 08:45 AM   #25
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Re: life in the empires

Sorry, Herkimer, my cognitive dissonance won't allow me to see the Trekiverse as being that simplistic (though you're probably right).

Realistically, it seems to me each empire is probably a slightly warped version of the one next to it, each using a different balance of methods to achieve its goals. As Quark and Garrack put it--likening the Federation to a glass of rootbeer--"It's so bubbly and cloyed... and happy. And the really scary thing is, if you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. It's insidious." In short, the Federation wins over its opponents by numbing them into a calm submissive state in a sort of calculated pavlovian mass social conditioning; it's the Disney Channel of galactic empires.

Romulus, on the other hand, doesn't do sweetness or bribes, they just have their agents sneak around in the shadows so you're too scared of punishment to even think about opposing them; in this case, it's the social conditioning usually experienced by fundamentalists who end up policing their own thoughts in fear that they will somehow loose control of their actions and end up being controlled--or worse, confused with--"the enemy."

Klingons buy their empire, apparently, through convoluted family politics, business arrangements and legacy/debts; it's basically an oligarchy, so most of their empire is conditioned to simply accept their collective irrelevance and instead chase fake dreams of glory in some battlefield somewhere, without really thinking about what the battlefield is or who stands to profit from their sacrifice.

The center of all three empires is a single planet--and a single class inhabiting that planet--who rakes in all the spoils from the rest. In the Federation, it's Earth, which has basically become a "paradise" while evidently exporting its varied miseries to the farthest corner of the galaxy, dumping its social/political garbage on planets so worthless it willingly cedes them to hostile empires just for a peace deal. This differs from Romulus only in that it shares the benefits more uniformly among the population of Earth, with off-world humans left to fend for themselves.
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Old June 28 2009, 08:54 AM   #26
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Re: life in the empires

So, in conclusion, the Star Trek Universe becomes GrimDark on close inspection.
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Old June 28 2009, 09:06 AM   #27
Crazy Eddie
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Re: life in the empires

Well, as depicted it's a slightly less grim version of our own crappy universe: the powers that be still play games with other people's lives just because they happen to be in charge and are seldom held accountable when their assorted power plays backfire.

So what else is new?
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Old June 28 2009, 10:13 AM   #28
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Re: life in the empires

Indeed.
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