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Old June 24 2009, 11:28 AM   #136
noknowes
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Captain Fine wrote: View Post
Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations that they might enjoy the awesomeness that is DS9. When everyone switches to HD and gets used to that level of quality, DS9 will look like shit next to it.
UPSCALING IS FINE.SOFTWARE INTERPOLATION/EXTRAPOLATION IS FINE TOO.NO NEED FOR EXPENSIVE,HEADACHE INDUCING REMASTERING.THE REASON IS WITHOUT THE MASTER COPY TO COMPARE TOO IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

when i write in caps it does not mean i am shouting.it means i forgot to switch caps off.

i don't look at the screen when i type.i look at the keyboard.
itistoo much effort to rewrite.iwish a special button could automatically make it lower case upper case by clicking on it.

what i did was to italicizise it instead so that youwill not be too upsetand take umbrage with myposting style.
i also don't use punctuation,proper grammer as i anm in a hurry and can't bebothered but somketimes i do ,depending onmy mood and time constraints,i hope this explains me.
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Old June 24 2009, 01:14 PM   #137
Navaros
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Should DS9 get Remastered - yes it should, starting right now.

Personally I wouldn't buy the Remastered version until I am rich enough to afford a 60" TV...which wouldn't be until years into the future.

Additionally, I certainly wouldn't pay the $130 USD or more that Paramount would probably charge per Season for the the first 3-5+ years that DS9 is sold in HD.

So yeah, they should get their butts in gear and start Remastering DS9 right now because even after they release it, it will still be years later before it is priced reasonably enough to buy.

Last edited by Navaros; June 24 2009 at 01:25 PM.
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Old June 24 2009, 01:37 PM   #138
Navaros
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post


CBS/Paramount will not do it due to cost.

I suggest ds9 fans using home computers do it instead.3 years ago a fan inspired project was launched in which all Jack Vance Novels were reprinted/re-mastered into Hardback using the internet as a coordination tool.This produced the Vance Integral Edition.

You can look up the Vance Integral Edition in google for inspiration.

Jack Vance is very good science fiction fantasy writer with well over 200 novels.He won the Hugo award.Some of you may be aware of this.

In the ds9 case the same methods can be used and with modern distributed computing the same principles can be used.

Some of you have already produced high quality cgi in relation to Star Trek as witnessed in youtube and google video.

These efforts can be focused into remastering DS9.

A small team of not more than 15 people can be assembled.Any more and it will not work as infighting and ego conspires to defeat the object of the exercise.

An Agenda can be agreed and then implemented episode by episode.

Perhaps CBS/Paramount can be involved in it too.

Sounds like what you are suggesting would be viewed by CBS/Paramount as a violation of the Trek IP, therefore they would shut it down with cease and desist legal letters as soon as someone started to try it.

So it being technically possible, presuming that your post is correct on the technical capabilities of such a project being doable, is a moot point. The idea would be swiftly crushed for legal reasons regardless.
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Old June 24 2009, 05:11 PM   #139
Harvey
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Funny you mention Casablanca. I just watched it on blu-ray, remastered in high-definition. This is the way it looked in theaters originally. Nothing was changed. If you haven't seen Casablanca on blu-ray, you really haven't seen it.

If you can, watch Casablanca on blu-ray. Then you'll finally get what remastering in HD is all about.
Well, not quite. 35mm has many times the resolution of HD, so if you can, see a print of Casablanca. But HD certainly comes far closer to replicating the visual experience than SD.
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Old June 25 2009, 05:10 AM   #140
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
UPSCALING IS FINE.SOFTWARE INTERPOLATION/EXTRAPOLATION IS FINE TOO.NO NEED FOR EXPENSIVE,HEADACHE INDUCING REMASTERING.THE REASON IS WITHOUT THE MASTER COPY TO COMPARE TOO IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

Sure, and why bother keeping the original Mona Lisa when a printed copy on a postcard will do just fine? Who can tell the difference between the two, right?

I can't fathom this logic. At all.
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Old June 25 2009, 01:19 PM   #141
noknowes
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Navaros wrote: View Post
noknowes wrote: View Post


CBS/Paramount will not do it due to cost.

I suggest ds9 fans using home computers do it instead.3 years ago a fan inspired project was launched in which all Jack Vance Novels were reprinted/re-mastered into Hardback using the internet as a coordination tool.This produced the Vance Integral Edition.

You can look up the Vance Integral Edition in google for inspiration.

Jack Vance is very good science fiction fantasy writer with well over 200 novels.He won the Hugo award.Some of you may be aware of this.

In the ds9 case the same methods can be used and with modern distributed computing the same principles can be used.

Some of you have already produced high quality cgi in relation to Star Trek as witnessed in youtube and google video.

These efforts can be focused into remastering DS9.

A small team of not more than 15 people can be assembled.Any more and it will not work as infighting and ego conspires to defeat the object of the exercise.

An Agenda can be agreed and then implemented episode by episode.

Perhaps CBS/Paramount can be involved in it too.

Sounds like what you are suggesting would be viewed by CBS/Paramount as a violation of the Trek IP, therefore they would shut it down with cease and desist legal letters as soon as someone started to try it.
The idea would be swiftly crushed for legal reasons regardless.

I DID SAY THIS:-

Perhaps CBS/Paramount can be involved in it too.<---

Both fans and cbs would win.
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Old June 26 2009, 02:52 AM   #142
Captain Fine
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

I really hope the DS9 masters are well-preserved if it's deemed too expensive to remaster at this time. That way, when it is fiscally feasible to do so, they can. It'll have to happen eventually. DVD won't be around forever, and you can't put SD on Blu-Ray.
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Old June 26 2009, 06:36 AM   #143
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Anyone who thinks upscaling a SD video is even remotely comprable to remastering the original film in high-definition compare the old SD DVD version of TOS played on a blu-ray player to the remastered version. You can upscale till the cows come home, it's never going to be anything but standard definition.

It's like copying a cassette recording onto a CD and expecting all the hiss and noise to go away and for it to sound like it was remastered. All the hiss and noise from your cassette is going to be copied onto a CD as well.
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Old June 26 2009, 09:57 AM   #144
noknowes
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Anyone who thinks upscaling a SD video is even remotely comprable to remastering the original film in high-definition compare the old SD DVD version of TOS played on a blu-ray player to the remastered version. You can upscale till the cows come home, it's never going to be anything but standard definition.

It's like copying a cassette recording onto a CD and expecting all the hiss and noise to go away and for it to sound like it was remastered. All the hiss and noise from your cassette is going to be copied onto a CD as well.
But software can remove that.Even the free Audacity can remove noise.

it can restore to original condition.last year old recording were restored digitally from the 1920 to near dolby status.
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Old June 26 2009, 01:09 PM   #145
TheGodBen
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Here's a graphic representation as I see it:



The upscaled image is better than the SD image but its attempts to replicate what is "really there" in the HD image are off in a number of areas. You might not realise the errors are there if your eye is untrained, but when you compare the true HD image next to the upscaled image you can see where it is wrong.

So what, you say? That doesn't mean much in this case because this is just a collection of random pixels I cooked up, but imagine this was an image of 2 million pixels. There would be distortion on the image, some things would look fake and certain parts of the image would look fuzzy when they are supposed to have increased clarity.

Just because you don't care about HD doesn't mean that others don't and for those people an upscaled image will never be able to cut it.
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Last edited by TheGodBen; June 26 2009 at 01:57 PM.
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Old June 26 2009, 01:19 PM   #146
Navaros
Commodore
 
Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post

Perhaps CBS/Paramount can be involved in it too.<---

Both fans and cbs would win.
Yes you did say that, but that doesn't mean CBS/Paramount would ever have any reason that makes them want to do so.

How would CBS win, and why would they want to be involved in this?

Whose to say they'd even be able to be involved in it without violating legal principles which may cause them to lose ownership of their own IP (those laws can be pretty off-the-wall which is why corporations are often forced to shut-down fan offshoots of anything with an iron fist).
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Old June 26 2009, 11:55 PM   #147
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
But software can remove that.Even the free Audacity can remove noise.
You can do whatever you want to try to improve the recording, the changes are only going to be cosmetic. You can't add any detail to the recording that isn't already there on the tape. If you want a perfect reproduction of the original recording, you have to go back and transfer the original recording.
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Old June 27 2009, 05:15 PM   #148
FalTorPan
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Yup.
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Old June 28 2009, 12:08 AM   #149
noknowes
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
noknowes wrote: View Post
But software can remove that.Even the free Audacity can remove noise.
You can do whatever you want to try to improve the recording, the changes are only going to be cosmetic. You can't add any detail to the recording that isn't already there on the tape. If you want a perfect reproduction of the original recording, you have to go back and transfer the original recording.

If the originals were destroyed nobody would have anything to compare the restored versions with and hence they would become the defacto masters.
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Old June 28 2009, 12:49 AM   #150
TheGodBen
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
If the originals were destroyed nobody would have anything to compare the restored versions with and hence they would become the defacto masters.
In this case the film footage from DS9 purportedly still exists and can provide much better quality than upscaling the video image, so why not use that? Just because you don't want it doesn't mean that other don't, many in this thread have said that they do, and if all that you want is an upscaled SD image then you can just watch your regular DVDs on a good DVD or blu-ray player. That's what I do.
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