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Old August 18 2008, 10:58 PM   #136
MyCylon
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

Re. Lapis Exilis:

Those are some really interesting points. I hadn't really looked at the natural growth of Batman, Gotham and its villains in such detail in Nolan's Batman. But you're right, I think, and I agree that it's making the movies better than the competition (I can't really think of any exceptions).

So, just based on the situation at the end of TDK and the points you've made, wouldn't the Riddler be a good choice? The Joker arguably threw all of Gotham into incredible chaos and the only way to resolve that chaos and madness was for Batman to go along with it to a degree by accepting responsibility where he's not responsible at all.

With the chaos and the opening left in the underworld wouldn't the Riddler be a pretty natural development? He would seem similar to the Joker at first as his schemes would not at first be apparent. But it would become clear - at least to a character such as Bruce Wayne / Batman - that there's actually a clever mind with a plan at work. However, this would be plan you could actually figure out in some way.

So, on the outside, the Riddler would continue some of the madness and chaos but, really, it wouldn't be like that at the core.

Wouldn't that be a possible direction to take?
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Old August 18 2008, 11:05 PM   #137
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

Justtoyourleft wrote: View Post
Re. Lapis Exilis:

Those are some really interesting points. I hadn't really looked at the natural growth of Batman, Gotham and its villains in such detail in Nolan's Batman. But you're right, I think, and I agree that it's making the movies better than the competition (I can't really think of any exceptions).

So, just based on the situation at the end of TDK and the points you've made, wouldn't the Riddler be a good choice? The Joker arguably threw all of Gotham into incredible chaos and the only way to resolve that chaos and madness was for Batman to go along with it to a degree by accepting responsibility where he's not responsible at all.

With the chaos and the opening left in the underworld wouldn't the Riddler be a pretty natural development? He would seem similar to the Joker at first as his schemes would not at first be apparent. But it would become clear - at least to a character such as Bruce Wayne / Batman - that there's actually a clever mind with a plan at work. However, this would be plan you could actually figure out in some way.

So, on the outside, the Riddler would continue some of the madness and chaos but, really, it wouldn't be like that at the core.

Wouldn't that be a possible direction to take?
Possibly. The Joker had no plans, but if you really think about it, he kind of did. Y'see, The Joker was kind of a contradiction. That was evident when he spewed two different stories about his past.

He was an enigma, a mystery, perhaps even to himself. He did everything he did in The Dark Knight to manipulate the world around him and it didn't matter what he did or how he did it. He definitely had plans, despite whatever he spewed to Dent or Batman.
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Old August 18 2008, 11:38 PM   #138
Cary L. Brown
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Possibly. The Joker had no plans, but if you really think about it, he kind of did. Y'see, The Joker was kind of a contradiction. That was evident when he spewed two different stories about his past.
Well, that was just more evidence that Nolan is an actual Batman (comics) fan.

The Joker's never told the same version of his origin twice. And that includes times that he's not TALKING to anyone, but rememberig things by himself. It's pretty well established in the comics that most of what he knows about himself is essentially hallucinatory self-delusion...

My personal favorite version of his origin (and thus the one I tend to accept as being closest to the truth) is the one Alan Moore wrote for "The Killing Joke." This is the one that Burton sort of "borrowed" (but not completely) when he did his own "Batman" movie.
He was an enigma, a mystery, perhaps even to himself. He did everything he did in The Dark Knight to manipulate the world around him and it didn't matter what he did or how he did it. He definitely had plans, despite whatever he spewed to Dent or Batman.
The only "plans" the joker has... that he's EVER had... has been to "let everyone in on the joke." The "joke" of course, is the total insanity, harshness, etc, of existence in an unfeeling, sadistic universe... (as he sees it). And he's anxious to win converts to his own personal worldview... what he believes to be the only real TRUTH in existence!
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Old August 19 2008, 12:45 AM   #139
Lapis Exilis
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

Justtoyourleft wrote: View Post
Re. Lapis Exilis:

Those are some really interesting points. I hadn't really looked at the natural growth of Batman, Gotham and its villains in such detail in Nolan's Batman. But you're right, I think, and I agree that it's making the movies better than the competition (I can't really think of any exceptions).

So, just based on the situation at the end of TDK and the points you've made, wouldn't the Riddler be a good choice? The Joker arguably threw all of Gotham into incredible chaos and the only way to resolve that chaos and madness was for Batman to go along with it to a degree by accepting responsibility where he's not responsible at all.

With the chaos and the opening left in the underworld wouldn't the Riddler be a pretty natural development? He would seem similar to the Joker at first as his schemes would not at first be apparent. But it would become clear - at least to a character such as Bruce Wayne / Batman - that there's actually a clever mind with a plan at work. However, this would be plan you could actually figure out in some way.

So, on the outside, the Riddler would continue some of the madness and chaos but, really, it wouldn't be like that at the core.

Wouldn't that be a possible direction to take?
My problem with Riddler is that he simply isn't enough of a threat to Gotham as a whole. He's always been an adversary focused on one upping Batman, or showing off his own intelligence (except of course in the memorable and wonderful Dark Knight, Dark City three-issue arc - but that wasn't really the Riddler). I can see Riddler and a bunch of others showing up in various guises to fill the power vacuum in Gotham's criminal underworld, but I don't see how he challenges the character dilemma enough to be the main threat - unless as was talked about earlier in the thread.

I could see a story in which the escalation theme is carried forward - crazies move into the power vacuum left by the mob leadership being killed. So the other side escalates. A politician or law enforcement leader (FBI or the state's AG) decides that harsh methods must be used to establish order in Gotham, instituting what amounts to martial law, and which includes a full on manhunt for the vigilante. I could see some uses of Hugo Strange in this area, as a profiler brought in to identify the Batman. I could see Riddler or some other Rogue used as a tool to enact chaos, thus justifying even more government control. Gordon and Batman find themselves at first pleased, and then horrified. It would make for a really interesting companion piece to TDK. It gives room to further explore the personal and philosophical dilemmas that have characterized the series. It would fulfill the requirement that Batman works best in a world that's gone to hell. It would follow naturally out of the events of TDK. It could be scary as hell to see a world brought to life where someone uses the Batman's own tactics to control crime taken to an extreme. Now it's not just one vigilante breaking the law, but an entire secret police force controlling the population completely.
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Old August 19 2008, 09:48 PM   #140
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

Well, I feel compelled to point out that outside my gym today, I saw a guy who looks perfect for the role of the Penguin. I nearly took a picture of him on my cameraphone so I could post it to Nolan and persuade him to cast him in the next movie. Then it occurred to me that that's the sort of thing that gets people barred from gyms.
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Old June 25 2009, 06:45 AM   #141
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

I'd like to see Guy Pearce in some role in a Batman film. As the Riddler, that would be interesting, I think. But I do like the idea of Depp playing the Riddler. I also think Nolan and his collaborators would come up with many interesting ways he could be a more nefarious, far less campy character. I mean, look what they did with the Joker -- took away the Joker venom, killer joybuzzers and such, and made him a frightening terrorist who just used guns, knives, and bombs. -- RR
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Old June 25 2009, 08:47 AM   #142
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

I've been saying since "Batman Begins" that I'd like to see Guy Pearce in one of Nolan's movies again. I believe he could play just about anyone convincingly. I thought he would have made a great Two-Face.

I admired him after seeing "L.A. Confidential" and "Memento" and after "The Proposition" I was even further convinced that this guy is a really great, really underrated chameleon-like actor who really deserves to be better known. I'd love to see him star in another Nolan Batman movie and get the kind of push Ledger's profile got from "The Dark Knight" (except without the dying part, of course).
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Old June 25 2009, 10:49 AM   #143
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

If I had to choose, I would go with Pearce over Depp. I think that if they did go with Depp it would overshadow Christian Bale, like Ledger's Joker did last time. I don't want the Nolan movies repeating the mistake of the previous Batfilms, of making the villains more interesting than the hero. Batman became interchangeable and the focus was on how eccentric they could make the villains and the big names they got to pick them.

Pearce is well regarded, can play an effective villain, but wouldn't overshadow Bale. The focus of the Batfilm should be on Batman. Also, I think Nolan missed a good opportunity by not making Anthony M. Hall the Riddler in The Dark Knight. I thought he would've been a good one.
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Old June 25 2009, 11:31 AM   #144
Ugly Sweater
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Re: BATMAN 3 RUMOR next Villian??

Red Ranger wrote: View Post
I'd like to see Guy Pearce in some role in a Batman film. As the Riddler, that would be interesting, I think. But I do like the idea of Depp playing the Riddler. I also think Nolan and his collaborators would come up with many interesting ways he could be a more nefarious, far less campy character. I mean, look what they did with the Joker -- took away the Joker venom, killer joybuzzers and such, and made him a frightening terrorist who just used guns, knives, and bombs. -- RR
Dude, this thread was nearly a fucking year old!
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