A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager - Page 128

TheGodBen · June 23 2009, 12:14 AM

I'm speaking to you over a video-link from an undisclosed location in order to protect myself, an excessive measure considering this is an internet thread and not an actual room.

I didn't hate Bride of Chaotica! I just didn't didn't love it either. There was parts I liked and there was parts I disliked and I came away from it with very neutral feelings. As for Take Me Out to the Holosuite, I hated that episode at first for several reasons; it took time away from the war, I'm a typical nerd who has no interest in sports and even if I did I still wouldn't care about baseball because we don't have it in this country. When I rewatched the episode on DVD I found myself better able to get into the spirit of things and now I love the episode. I hated Badda-Bing Badda-Bang for similar reasons; it took time away from the war and at that time I hated Vic Fontane, but when I rewatched the show on DVD I didn't mind Vic so much and now I think it's a fun episode.

As we speak militant Voyager fans are tracking the video-link to find out where I'm broadcasting from so I'm going to leave now to hide in another undisclosed location. Try not to trash the thread too badly.

PolloCaballo · June 23 2009, 01:36 AM

GodBen wrote:

And I was slightly off-put by having Janeway playing Arachnia. *dodges rotten fruit being hurled my way* The problem is that it was too obvious to me that it was Kate Mulgrew playing Arachnia and not Janeway and it took me out of the experience, in contrast the scene where Shmully plays the President of Earth is a better example of an actor playing an actor playing a role.

Normally, I'd be the one throwing the fruit, but I have to agree with this statement. I remember thinking the first time I saw this ep that Janeway wouldn't know anything about how to act like an early twentieth century B-Movie Queen. Cheesy Sci-Fi is Tom's department, not hers. It was a little hard to buy and it took me out of the moment too.

NumberSix · June 23 2009, 04:26 AM

GodBen wrote:

Bride of Chaotica! (**½)

NEELIX: Replicators aren't the only systems of convenience offline; we've only got four functioning lavatories for a ship of a hundred and fifty people.
JANEWAY: I see.
NEELIX: Needless to say, lines are beginning to form. If we don't get unstuck soon we may have a serious problem on our hands, especially with the Bolians. All but three sonic showers are offline, too. In another couple of days...
JANEWAY: I get the idea.

At this point they've been stuck in this subspace thingy for three days, how is Janeway not aware that the toilets are offline?

You can't drink that much coffee and not go to the bathroom for 72 hours!

Maybe one of the four functioning lavatories was next to her ready room so she wasn't worried

DGCatAniSiri · June 23 2009, 04:30 PM

I think Bride of Choatica! suffers from a case of too much babble - they spend so much time setting up why the characters have to enter theworld of the Captain Proton holoprogram that they forget that this should be a fun experience - get more than just Janeway, Harry, Tom, and the Doctor involved. Let the whole cast revel in the off-the-wall cheesiness of the experience.

For that matter, couldn't it have just been a 'slice of life' episode instead of a 'Voyager encounters an anomaly and the holodecks malfunction' episode, where all the crew is getting involved in the program, and we're slowly introduced to each character in character? It could have been a lot more fun than this if they'd really played with the format - maybe even done the episode almost entirely as an 'Adventure of Captain Proton' and end it with the senior staff ending the program, having a laugh.

Frazzled · June 23 2009, 07:13 PM

Noooooooo! Please No! I hate the holodeck episodes that are done just for the sake of it, as a general rule. Eg Whatsitcalled small-town-in-ireland-Janeway-shags-hologram episode. Fair Haven, that's it. I much prefer there to be some sort of reason for them to be in there, however badly the technobabble is done.

Nice to have someone acknowledge that toilets and bodily functions still actually exist in the 24th century for once

I always think Mulgrew looks magnificent in this, it's not just the Arachnia costume she looks good for all the episodes around this time. Maybe life was going well.

Tomalak · June 23 2009, 07:21 PM

DGCatAniSiri wrote:

I think Bride of Choatica! suffers from a case of too much babble - they spend so much time setting up why the characters have to enter theworld of the Captain Proton holoprogram that they forget that this should be a fun experience - get more than just Janeway, Harry, Tom, and the Doctor involved. Let the whole cast revel in the off-the-wall cheesiness of the experience.

Yes, that's right. It wants to be like "Our Man Bashir", a very funny parody with a rather peripheral jeopardy plot tacked on - it was something about a Maquis bomb, but who cares?

Chaotica could have been a great B-movie pastiche, but it doesn't quite work in the same spirit as "Our Man Bashir". It's overthinking the plot too much, which was exactly the problem with "Flashback" - I don't care about Tuvok's mental virus, I just want to see Sulu and the Excelsior.

TheGodBen · June 23 2009, 08:56 PM

Gravity (**)

Watch this video. Did anybody notice what was wrong there? That's correct, nobody put up a warning sign and that poor cyclist ended up cycling into a big pit of water. The aliens in this episode said that they knew of this subspace sinkhole for a year and they lost a number of ships to it. Do you see where I'm going with this?

This episode does too much too quickly and ends up not doing anything well. Tuvok and Nos are supposedly in love but they have so little chemistry together that I wouldn't have been able to tell if it it hadn't been for everybody saying so. Part of the problem is how little time is spent developing their relationship; they meet and then the story skips ahead to months later and suddenly they're in love.

Too much time was wasted on pointless story points such as Janeway and the mean aliens who are trying to close the sinkhole, Nos and the mean aliens who are attacking for godsonlyknowwhatreason, and flashbacks into Tuvok's childhood. The flashbacks themselves are okay, but they don't add enough to the story to justify taking time away from the romance plot. Then it ends with the simple resolution of having Tuvok mind-meld with Nos and her leaving Voyager with a smile on her face. It might have helped her out had he just don't that a month ago.

This is an episode with good intentions but it crams so much into 45 minutes that it crashes back to Earth at 9.81m/s².

Terrible math joke is terrible.

Shuttles Lost: 12

SharkD · June 23 2009, 09:09 PM

Great thread! I don't see how I managed to slog through all 7 seasons on DVD. DS9 is much more enjoyable!

kimc · June 23 2009, 09:18 PM

SharkD wrote:

Great thread! I don't see how I managed to slog through all 7 seasons on DVD. DS9 is much more enjoyable!

At least he's willing to give it a shot before passing final judgement...

Seven of Five · June 23 2009, 09:37 PM

'Bride of Chaotica!' is a strange episode - both times I watched it I fell asleep whilst the plot was trying to get going. It had a bit of a hard time just getting to the fun part - I think the episode was to concerned with plot and technobabble a lot of the time. Mulgrew really gets to unleash as Arachnia though, which is worth the watch - even if it doesn't quite make sense in context. How would she know how to act in Tom and Harry's holoprogram if she's had nothing at all to do with it? It could have been better - 2/5

'Gravity' I don't remember all that well - I watched it once years ago when it was first out, but skipped it on my recent rewatch as I remember it being dull. I remember being especially disappointed - Tuvok appearances dwindled as the show went on, so any Tuvok episode would be greatly anticipated. So yeah, big letdown! The romance between Tuvok and Noss was quite non-existent, and I think the only part of the episode I liked was the end, where Tuvok melded with Noss to help her understand things. 1.5/5

kimc · June 23 2009, 09:44 PM

Seven Of Five wrote:

How would she know how to act in Tom and Harry's holoprogram if she's had nothing at all to do with it?

How do kings know the air speed velocity of a laden swallow - African or European?

There are just some things you know when you're the captain.

SharkD · June 23 2009, 09:55 PM

GodBen wrote:

Shuttles Lost: 12

They must have a membership at Sam's Club!

JB2005 · June 23 2009, 10:19 PM

kimc wrote:

SharkD wrote:

Great thread! I don't see how I managed to slog through all 7 seasons on DVD. DS9 is much more enjoyable!

At least he's willing to give it a shot before passing final judgement...

Seems that if you've watched all 7 series you're entitled to pass final judgement...

AuntKate · June 23 2009, 10:27 PM

PolloCaballo wrote:

GodBen wrote:

And I was slightly off-put by having Janeway playing Arachnia. *dodges rotten fruit being hurled my way* The problem is that it was too obvious to me that it was Kate Mulgrew playing Arachnia and not Janeway and it took me out of the experience, in contrast the scene where Shmully plays the President of Earth is a better example of an actor playing an actor playing a role.

Normally, I'd be the one throwing the fruit, but I have to agree with this statement. I remember thinking the first time I saw this ep that Janeway wouldn't know anything about how to act like an early twentieth century B-Movie Queen. Cheesy Sci-Fi is Tom's department, not hers. It was a little hard to buy and it took me out of the moment too.

I thought Arachnia was played waaaay over-the-top, even for a B Movie character. I don't see it as KM so much as Janeway being a bit simplistic in her approach to the character. Janeway is obviously not a Method actor.

Tomalak · June 23 2009, 10:31 PM

"Gravity" was just a rubbish, unfunny rip-off of Red Dwarf's "Rimmerworld".

I did like the spidery things though.

June 23 2009, 12:14 AM	#1906
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager I'm speaking to you over a video-link from an undisclosed location in order to protect myself, an excessive measure considering this is an internet thread and not an actual room. I didn't hate Bride of Chaotica! I just didn't didn't love it either. There was parts I liked and there was parts I disliked and I came away from it with very neutral feelings. As for Take Me Out to the Holosuite, I hated that episode at first for several reasons; it took time away from the war, I'm a typical nerd who has no interest in sports and even if I did I still wouldn't care about baseball because we don't have it in this country. When I rewatched the episode on DVD I found myself better able to get into the spirit of things and now I love the episode. I hated Badda-Bing Badda-Bang for similar reasons; it took time away from the war and at that time I hated Vic Fontane, but when I rewatched the show on DVD I didn't mind Vic so much and now I think it's a fun episode. As we speak militant Voyager fans are tracking the video-link to find out where I'm broadcasting from so I'm going to leave now to hide in another undisclosed location. Try not to trash the thread too badly. __________________ *...so many different suns...*

June 23 2009, 04:30 PM	#1909
DGCatAniSiri Captain	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager I think Bride of Choatica! suffers from a case of too much babble - they spend so much time setting up why the characters have to enter theworld of the Captain Proton holoprogram that they forget that this should be a fun experience - get more than just Janeway, Harry, Tom, and the Doctor involved. Let the whole cast revel in the off-the-wall cheesiness of the experience. For that matter, couldn't it have just been a 'slice of life' episode instead of a 'Voyager encounters an anomaly and the holodecks malfunction' episode, where all the crew is getting involved in the program, and we're slowly introduced to each character in character? It could have been a lot more fun than this if they'd really played with the format - maybe even done the episode almost entirely as an 'Adventure of Captain Proton' and end it with the senior staff ending the program, having a laugh.

June 23 2009, 07:13 PM	#1910
Frazzled Commander Location: The mess hall	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Noooooooo! Please No! I hate the holodeck episodes that are done just for the sake of it, as a general rule. Eg Whatsitcalled small-town-in-ireland-Janeway-shags-hologram episode. Fair Haven, that's it. I much prefer there to be some sort of reason for them to be in there, however badly the technobabble is done. Nice to have someone acknowledge that toilets and bodily functions still actually exist in the 24th century for once I always think Mulgrew looks magnificent in this, it's not just the Arachnia costume she looks good for all the episodes around this time. Maybe life was going well. __________________ Av by the fabulous E.S.

June 23 2009, 08:56 PM	#1912
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Gravity () Watch this video. Did anybody notice what was wrong there? That's correct, nobody put up a warning sign and that poor cyclist ended up cycling into a big pit of water. The aliens in this episode said that they knew of this subspace sinkhole for a year and they lost a number of ships to it. Do you see where I'm going with this? This episode does too much too quickly and ends up not doing anything well. Tuvok and Nos are supposedly in love but they have so little chemistry together that I wouldn't have been able to tell if it it hadn't been for everybody saying so. Part of the problem is how little time is spent developing their relationship; they meet and then the story skips ahead to months later and suddenly they're in love. Too much time was wasted on pointless story points such as Janeway and the mean aliens who are trying to close the sinkhole, Nos and the mean aliens who are attacking for godsonlyknowwhatreason, and flashbacks into Tuvok's childhood. The flashbacks themselves are okay, but they don't add enough to the story to justify taking time away from the romance plot. Then it ends with the simple resolution of having Tuvok mind-meld with Nos and her leaving Voyager with a smile on her face. It might have helped her out had he just don't that a month ago. This is an episode with good intentions but it crams so much into 45 minutes that it crashes back to Earth at 9.81m/s². Terrible math joke is terrible. Shuttles Lost: 12 __________________ ...so many different suns...**

June 23 2009, 09:09 PM	#1913
SharkD Lieutenant	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Great thread! I don't see how I managed to slog through all 7 seasons on DVD. DS9 is much more enjoyable!

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June 23 2009, 09:37 PM	#1915
Seven of Five Commodore Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager 'Bride of Chaotica!' is a strange episode - both times I watched it I fell asleep whilst the plot was trying to get going. It had a bit of a hard time just getting to the fun part - I think the episode was to concerned with plot and technobabble a lot of the time. Mulgrew really gets to unleash as Arachnia though, which is worth the watch - even if it doesn't quite make sense in context. How would she know how to act in Tom and Harry's holoprogram if she's had nothing at all to do with it? It could have been better - 2/5 'Gravity' I don't remember all that well - I watched it once years ago when it was first out, but skipped it on my recent rewatch as I remember it being dull. I remember being especially disappointed - Tuvok appearances dwindled as the show went on, so any Tuvok episode would be greatly anticipated. So yeah, big letdown! The romance between Tuvok and Noss was quite non-existent, and I think the only part of the episode I liked was the end, where Tuvok melded with Noss to help her understand things. 1.5/5 __________________ I love how coffee makes me feel. It's like my heart is trying to hug my brain!

June 23 2009, 10:31 PM	#1920
Tomalak Vice Admiral Location: Liverpool	Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager "Gravity" was just a rubbish, unfunny rip-off of Red Dwarf's "Rimmerworld". I did like the spidery things though.