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Old June 21 2009, 08:38 PM   #1891
Seven of Five
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

'Nothing Human' - I found it strange that the Doc was able to whip up a working holographic representation of Crell Mosset so easily after Tom and Harry had already had trouble trying to build a new EMH back in 'Message in a Bottle.' I agree with whoever said that this could have been a better episode had it been on DS9 with the real Mosset - having a random Maquis crewman show up for just one episode certainly devalued it a bit. And also, the alien prop attatched to B'Elanna this episode looked particularly bad. 2/5

'Thirty Days' - A relatively decent Paris episode, with an interesting ocean planet and a government that ignores the imminent ecological threat. Paris being stripped of his rank and being shoved in the brig was a brilliant opener, and the consequences sort of stuck around in the form of him being an ensign for nearly two years. I liked that Tom wrote to his father whilst locked up. 3.5/5

'Counterpoint' - Not a perfect episode by far but the best of the three, I think. Kate Mulgrew and Mark Harelik were on form, and with all of the double and double-double crossing going on, it's a joy to watch. Janeway's 'romance' was a little left-field, but it works as a deception of Kashyk. The end is brilliant, and the music throughout the episode is very good. And Jurot is a very random crewmember who pops up again in Elite Force! 4/5

I'm loving all this Jump The Shark stuff too - very funny.
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Old June 22 2009, 01:58 AM   #1892
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Latent Image (****)

This episode first aired when I was 13, this is a verbatim record of the conversation I had with a friend the next day:
Friend: Hey GodBen, did you see Voyager last night.
Me: Why did you call me GodBen? My name is Steve.
Friend: I'm just trying to make this conversation easier to understand for the people who are going to read about it a decade from now.
Me: Why would people be reading about this conversation ten years in the future?
Friend: Because the internet means that the opinion of any random idiot who can put together a sentence will matter, and it helps if that idiot tries to hide his intellectual shortcomings behind excessive humour.
Me: Duly noted.
Friend: Can we get back on topic?
Me: Yeah, I saw Voyager. It was a pretty good episode, I'm just confused about what happened at the end.
Friend: Well what I think happened is that Doctor Shmully read the poem and it fixed him so that everything will be back to normal next week.
Me: I doubt that's what happened, it seems far too simplistic. I think you're underestimating the show a little bit, I'm sure that there will be some consequences from this that will be addressed next week.
So for those of you who wonder why I'm so cynical it's because I tried being an optimist and it didn't work out so good.

The episode itself is actually very good, it's not just a great character episode for Shmully it also addresses some big issues about Shmully and his rights. I really enjoyed watching this episode for the most part, it was better than I remembered it and this time I didn't have a problem with how everybody is suddenly treating Shmully as not quite a person, I realise that they're using that as a justification for removing his memories 18 months before.

But as with season 3's The Swarm I'm annoyed by the ending. This is clearly an episodic show no matter how much I wish it was otherwise and you can't just end an episode like this with no resolution. If they followed up on this it would be great, but as far as I remember they wont.

SHMULLY: I made [my camera] part of the annual check-up. It's quite handy really, by attuning the resonance spectrum along the subspace band I can take an image of my patients all the way down to the subatomic level.
NAOMI: Subatomic level? I thought you said this wasn't going to hurt.
SHMULLY: I did, and it won't. There. See? Nothing to it.
Shmully has a camera that can "see" through clothing and he's using it to take a picture of a little girl? Somebody alert Tuvok!
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Last edited by TheGodBen; June 22 2009 at 02:44 AM. Reason: to add an extra joke
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Old June 22 2009, 12:43 PM   #1893
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Love, love, love, love Counterpoint, from beginning to end. So much potential finally fulfilled, Janeway is finally allowed to be a woman for 45 minutes, but she doesn't let any of her 'Captain' ness slip, she outsmarts Kashyk in the end.

Just rereading the original post..... shame the Devore now will know where the wormhole is, damn it GodBen why did you have to point that one out? I'm crushed! but as Tomalak says the music is great, I think that kind of elevates this episode above the others. It's Kashyk that really does that though, he's just gorgeous, definitely a lovable rogue

I still just love the bit where the vegetables rematerialise, for years I thought of this as 'the vegetable episode' - however the very best scene just has to be the smirk on the security guard at the bedroom door's face - 'As you were' - love it
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Old June 22 2009, 12:54 PM   #1894
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I agree that in Latent image it's far too simplistic that a bit of poetry can solve all the Doctor's problems, I never thought this one ended well it seems a bit chopped off as if they ran out of time. Plus unless my memory plays tricks on me the beginning isn't brilliant, Janeway hasn't been that rude to the Doc since Season One, that was turned on to make a point.

The continuity also isn't brilliant as Kes would've been in Sickbay during the events 18 months before, and Janeway's hair would've been long.

However I think overall it's a good one for the Doc, because it's kind of the turning point where Janeway finally admits he's a person and starts showing him a little bit more respect.

I think these few Episodes in season Five are probably the bit where Voyager suffers most from being too episodic - Janeway is ditched by Kashyk one week, bounces back to deal with the Doctor but ends up with flu this week then will be happily and energetically running about with the spider people next. Wish I could move through life as smoothly and as unscathed!
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Old June 22 2009, 01:13 PM   #1895
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm not a huge fan of Voyager, but Latent Image was very good. Voyager episodes seem to botch their handling of serious questions a lot of the time, whereas this one actually got to grips with the issue of the Doctor's sentience and worked very well as drama at the same time. I thought Robert Picardo and Jeri Ryan did excellent work. The ending could have been better, but this still beats most episodes of the show.
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Old June 22 2009, 02:07 PM   #1896
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

'Latent Image' was a very good episode, if you ignore the end, and the slightly duff continuity. In that sense, it was a really good Voyager episode, if you know what I mean! Consequences just don't really happen on VOY, so the end is still disappointing years after I first saw it.

It's odd that we had never met this member of the crew before, and as it happened again in season six's 'Ashes to Ashes, it seems that the writers didn't learn their lesson. Having someone who the audience have met who later died in the past could really have made the episode more substantial. I still give it a 4/5 though.
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Old June 22 2009, 04:15 PM   #1897
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
The ending could have been better, but this still beats most episodes of the show.
I loved the ending. I thought it was sweet how the crew sat with him while he hashed out philosophical crisis.

I also loved the Dante references. Then again, I also liked the Da Vinci program being the Renaissance fan that I am.
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Old June 22 2009, 07:46 PM   #1898
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The overall resolution was good, but I'd have liked it better without the poem, which for me detracted from the sense that this was something that was going to take time for him to work out. Of course you can interpret it differently, but it just gave that impression, I thought.
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Old June 22 2009, 07:53 PM   #1899
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'd've liked to see him back in sickbay afterwards, putting all he learned into practice and reflecting on the poetry that gave him the inspiration to move forwards. Just an extra few minutes tying it all together a bit.
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Old June 22 2009, 09:07 PM   #1900
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Adore Latent Image, fantastic character piece. The Doctor's rant about choices is a highlight for me, great acting on display.

Best of that season would be Bride of Chaotica though, possibly my fave Voyager episode of the lot.
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Old June 22 2009, 09:14 PM   #1901
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Without a doubt Latent Image is one of the better episodes (unsuprisingly it's an episode Picardo mostly carried)
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Old June 22 2009, 10:54 PM   #1902
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Bride of Chaotica! (**½)

NEELIX: Replicators aren't the only systems of convenience offline; we've only got four functioning lavatories for a ship of a hundred and fifty people.
JANEWAY: I see.
NEELIX: Needless to say, lines are beginning to form. If we don't get unstuck soon we may have a serious problem on our hands, especially with the Bolians. All but three sonic showers are offline, too. In another couple of days...
JANEWAY: I get the idea.
At this point they've been stuck in this subspace thingy for three days, how is Janeway not aware that the toilets are offline? You can't drink that much coffee and not go to the bathroom for 72 hours!

In the 98/99 season there was three episode of Star Trek I remembered downright loathing; Take Me Out to the Holosuite, Bada-Bing Bada-Bang and Bride of Chaotica! When I rewatched those two DS9 episodes on DVD some years back I was surprised by how enjoyable I managed to find them, I now think that Take Me Out... is one of the funniest episodes of Trek. Bride of Chaotica! isn't quite at that level, but it was certainly a more enjoyable experience this time around.

The episode has its funny moments, the best of which is Tom trying to explain the situation to the senior staff, but it also drags on a bit at the end. And I was slightly off-put by having Janeway playing Arachnia. *dodges rotten fruit being hurled my way* The problem is that it was too obvious to me that it was Kate Mulgrew playing Arachnia and not Janeway and it took me out of the experience, in contrast the scene where Shmully plays the President of Earth is a better example of an actor playing an actor playing a role.

*dodges sharp objects*

Speaking of Shmully, he seems to be normal again in this episode thus justifying my major criticism of Latent Image. Now if you will please excuse me I have to flee for my life.
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Old June 22 2009, 10:57 PM   #1903
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

** throws rotten fruit **

Aw, c'mon! How can you not like this episode? Forget the toilets and the fact they even had all that power to the holodeck and just enjy!
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Old June 22 2009, 11:12 PM   #1904
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It's funny, but I love those three episodes you mentioned you hated.
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Old June 22 2009, 11:36 PM   #1905
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Bride of Chaotica is superbly written, directed and acted. An exceptional piece of Trek by any measure.
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