DS9 should get Remastered - Page 9

jefferiestubes8 · June 21 2009, 07:08 PM

ManaByte wrote:

In regards to the tests, this is from 2007:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Star-Trek/7762

As I've already pointed out on this thread a link to TNG remastering which had that information.
My question was

Do you have a url link or magazine title and issue# or month/year to your rumor source?

about your

Originally Posted by ManaByte

grabbed an episode of TNG and remastered it in HD (without re-doing the effects) and showed it to the brass at Paramount to try to sell them on the project. The rumor is that it's already underway.

If you do not have a source to even a rumor then it is not a rumor.

SoM · June 21 2009, 09:06 PM

noknowes wrote:

SoM wrote:

noknowes wrote:

But people spend vast amounts of time here writing when they could be working mastering a few seconds worth of footage due to distributed working.

How? CBS would hardly be likely to send out film rushes even in the bizarre circumstance that everyone had telecines attached to their computer. And beyond that, the grading would have to be done by professionals watching the whole process and making manual adjustments as they go.

It's not a matter of raw number-crunching. It's a matter of hardware, and of manual processes.

INTERPOLATION SOFTWARE would negate the need for film rushes.

Using this would allow high definition and sharpness.

it takes 300 hours per 1 hour of remaster for a A 3 GHZ DUE CORE home pc to remaster in HD.

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

Captain Fine · June 22 2009, 12:09 AM

Yeah the original film needs to be rescanned for sure. It's a pain that it has to be reedited as well, but it doesn't sound like it should be too hard (based on the TNG Remaster thread) so I think the real expensive thing to do will be the special effects.

noknowes · June 22 2009, 12:12 AM

SoM wrote:

noknowes wrote:

SoM wrote:

How? CBS would hardly be likely to send out film rushes even in the bizarre circumstance that everyone had telecines attached to their computer. And beyond that, the grading would have to be done by professionals watching the whole process and making manual adjustments as they go.

It's not a matter of raw number-crunching. It's a matter of hardware, and of manual processes.

INTERPOLATION SOFTWARE would negate the need for film rushes.

Using this would allow high definition and sharpness.

it takes 300 hours per 1 hour of remaster for a A 3 GHZ DUE CORE home pc to remaster in HD.

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

UPSCALING.

would fix it.the software would INTERPOLATE AND EXTRAPOLATE from existing footage....which would be frozen as a digital image.

upscaling software WOULD REPRODUCE HD quality without master tapes at all.

DiSiLLUSiON · June 22 2009, 12:20 AM

Do you really feel the need to shout like that? If you're afraid of being misunderstood, you could simply pay more attention to your grammar and spelling, you know.

timelord1010 · June 22 2009, 12:27 AM

I hope that if CBS does get around to remastering TNG and DS9 they do things different than what they did for TOS. How about instead of syndication they air it on the CBS network on a Saturday night so everyone will know where to find it. I had a hard time finding TOS-R on TV since they kept changing the air time. Also, they would have to speed up the airings since most people will lose patience with a season per year being remastered.

Kestrel · June 22 2009, 12:44 AM

Nice idea, but I doubt it'd get even 1/10th the ratings to justify a primetime spot on a big network.

TheGodBen · June 22 2009, 02:22 AM

noknowes wrote:

SoM wrote:

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

UPSCALING.

would fix it.the software would INTERPOLATE AND EXTRAPOLATE from existing footage....which would be frozen as a digital image.

upscaling software WOULD REPRODUCE HD quality without master tapes at all.

I'm no genius, I just pretend to be one in the Voyager forum, but you seem to be missing the point. Software cannot interpolate and extrapolate data that is not there.

Lets say for the sake of argument that Avery Brooks has a faint wrinkle on his forehead, it's too faint to show up on the video image but it does show up on the original film negatives. Since the data for those pixels is not on the video image the upscaling software does not know that it is there and it will not create it. If they don't rescan the original film they cannot get all the detail; they cannot recreate the wrinkles on an actor's face, they cannot show the writing on background computer displays, they cannot show the finer details on the spaceship models... so much would be lost out.

Upscaling the image will make it look better than the original image but it will not be able to produce the same level of detail that a full remastering of the footage would achieve.

timelord1010 · June 22 2009, 03:41 AM

Kestrel wrote:

Nice idea, but I doubt it'd get even 1/10th the ratings to justify a primetime spot on a big network.

That's why I mentioned Saturday night, the usual dead spot of the networks schedule and CBS and the other networks seem to repeat shows that aired earlier in the week on Saturday nights.
As for ratings, who knows? If it's hyped and promoted properly it could get decent ratings. Like Chuckles said on Voyager: "Everything old is new again!".

noknowes · June 22 2009, 01:12 PM

GodBen wrote:

noknowes wrote:

SoM wrote:

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

UPSCALING.

would fix it.the software would INTERPOLATE AND EXTRAPOLATE from existing footage....which would be frozen as a digital image.

upscaling software WOULD REPRODUCE HD quality without master tapes at all.

I'm no genius, I just pretend to be one in the Voyager forum, but you seem to be missing the point. Software cannot interpolate and extrapolate data that is not there.

Lets say for the sake of argument that Avery Brooks has a faint wrinkle on his forehead, it's too faint to show up on the video image but it does show up on the original film negatives. Since the data for those pixels is not on the video image the upscaling software does not know that it is there and it will not create it. If they don't rescan the original film they cannot get all the detail; they cannot recreate the wrinkles on an actor's face, they cannot show the writing on background computer displays, they cannot show the finer details on the spaceship models... so much would be lost out.

Upscaling the image will make it look better than the original image but it will not be able to produce the same level of detail that a full remastering of the footage would achieve.

The background display details don/t exist ans is mostly gibberish to make it look good.it is mostly dos code in color.

You misunderstand.Why would I want to see wrinkles on Sisko's head?

it would add nothing to my enjoyment.

WE DON'T NEED THAT KIND OF UNSAVOURY DETAIL

NEXT YOU WILL WANT TO SEE HIS NOSE HAIRS.

or stubble on Kira's legs.

ugh.ugh.ugh.

TheGodBen · June 22 2009, 01:49 PM

^ But that's the point of HD, you see far more detail than on SD. I don't need HD, I'm fine with letting my DVD player upscale my DVDs to display on my HDTV, but some people want to watch DS9 in HD and for those people upscaling the existing episodes will not be good enough.

Captain Fine · June 23 2009, 05:23 PM

Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations that they might enjoy the awesomeness that is DS9. When everyone switches to HD and gets used to that level of quality, DS9 will look like shit next to it.

jefferiestubes8 · June 23 2009, 05:40 PM

Captain Fine wrote:

Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations

I agree. My post on Will Star Trek live forever? brings this up.
A TV show getting remastered via an expensive process is solely a business decision based on R.O.I..
Standard definition has been adequate since 1928. It has improved but it does still work and moving from analog capture and storage to digital capture and storage of standard definition television has improved the image from the initial capture from 35mm film & editing systems output.

Hober Mallow · June 24 2009, 05:18 AM

NCC-1701 wrote:

Babaganoosh wrote:

Would you rag on CD players because they can't play gramophone records?

Actually yes, I would. Of course it won't be able to play a gramophone record. But what's the use of a CD player if it can't play back a musical piece that was originally recorded for replay on the gramophone? That doesn't make any damn sense. Every new technology should logially be downwardly compatible with older media forms.

Your CD player can play the same songs you listened to on grammaphone -- after its been remastered from the original recording.

Hober Mallow · June 24 2009, 05:32 AM

Oso Blanco wrote:

NCC-1701 wrote:

I can't speak for Oso Blanco, but personally I won't lose sleep over never being able to see Deep Space Nine in high definition. I'm happy with my DVDs. As for future means of releasing the show, I'm not really convinced that the only way to get the series to Blu-ray is by updating the effects. I'm all for remastering the picture and sound quality. But don't mess with the effects.

I absolutely agree. I won't be watching TOS with new effects and I won't be watching DS9 with new effects. If that means that I'll never see it in high definition, then that's the way it is.

Um... you do know that remastered TOS on blu-ray features the original FX from the 60s, right? You knew that, right?

Oso Blanco wrote:

Yes, it would ruin it for me. When I'm watching a movie or a tv show, I want to see the original effects. Each movie/show is a product of its time, and it should be appreciated as such. I also won't be watching Casablanca in colour or any other attempt at "improving" old movies.

Funny you mention Casablanca. I just watched it on blu-ray, remastered in high-definition. This is the way it looked in theaters originally. Nothing was changed. If you haven't seen Casablanca on blu-ray, you really haven't seen it.

If you can, watch Casablanca on blu-ray. Then you'll finally get what remastering in HD is all about.

June 22 2009, 12:09 AM	#123
Captain Fine Fleet Captain Location: Toronto, ON	Re: DS9 should get Remastered Yeah the original film needs to be rescanned for sure. It's a pain that it has to be reedited as well, but it doesn't sound like it should be too hard (based on the TNG Remaster thread) so I think the real expensive thing to do will be the special effects.

June 22 2009, 12:20 AM	#125
DiSiLLUSiON Commodore Location: The Netherlands	Re: DS9 should get Remastered Do you really feel the need to shout like that? If you're afraid of being misunderstood, you could simply pay more attention to your grammar and spelling, you know.

June 22 2009, 12:27 AM	#126
timelord1010 Captain Location: Sector 001	Re: DS9 should get Remastered I hope that if CBS does get around to remastering TNG and DS9 they do things different than what they did for TOS. How about instead of syndication they air it on the CBS network on a Saturday night so everyone will know where to find it. I had a hard time finding TOS-R on TV since they kept changing the air time. Also, they would have to speed up the airings since most people will lose patience with a season per year being remastered.

June 22 2009, 12:44 AM	#127
Kestrel Rear Admiral Location: East Tennessee	Re: DS9 should get Remastered Nice idea, but I doubt it'd get even 1/10th the ratings to justify a primetime spot on a big network. __________________ "Does it ever get easy?" "You mean life?" "Yeah. Does it get easy?" "What do you want me to say?" "Lie to me."

June 22 2009, 01:49 PM	#131
TheGodBen Rear Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: DS9 should get Remastered ^ But that's the point of HD, you see far more detail than on SD. I don't need HD, I'm fine with letting my DVD player upscale my DVDs to display on my HDTV, but some people want to watch DS9 in HD and for those people upscaling the existing episodes will not be good enough. __________________ *...so many different suns...*

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CSI

ABOUT US

June 23 2009, 05:23 PM	#132
Captain Fine Fleet Captain Location: Toronto, ON	Re: DS9 should get Remastered Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations that they might enjoy the awesomeness that is DS9. When everyone switches to HD and gets used to that level of quality, DS9 will look like shit next to it. __________________ Formerly known as RegentWorf. But after seven years on this BBS, I went into pine farr and regenerated into Captain Fine.