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Old June 19 2009, 02:56 AM   #1876
The Grim Ghost
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ The Shuttle-O-Matic is a bit like the Borg...it adapts!!

Just drop in a few Leola root stems and a small amount of Treknobabbleite and it will produce whatever you wish!
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Old June 19 2009, 02:58 AM   #1877
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
So the magic shuttle creator is actually Firefox? And these other things are addons?
I was thinking more like they're expansion packs for the original software. Sort of like the Sims - the shuttle creator is the first game, then you have to go and buy the redshirt generator, then the torpedo creater, and by then you've spent all this money and, much as you might want to, you can't quite make yourself stop until after you're broke.
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Old June 19 2009, 03:27 AM   #1878
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
I'm not asking for an episode devoted to locating the necesary tools to create their own torpedeos, just ONE. FREAKING. LINE.
Amen!

Praetor wrote: View Post
We need a magic torpedo creator, like the magic shuttle creator.
We did! His name was Joe Carey. Why else do you think we only saw him twice in seven years?


Thirty Days
Meh... it was ok. I love Tom, but this episode was a bit boring for me. I got the significance, but the fact that the stupid aliens didn't annoyed me and I probably would have just said "well, your loss" and walked off. Much prefer to watch Alice instead.
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Old June 19 2009, 04:20 AM   #1879
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tomalak wrote: View Post
Well, we can all die happy knowing the precise moment of the shark-jumping. And how appropriate that it should fall on the episode set on an ocean planet.

In honour of this moment, here's a hastily prepared photoshop depicting the glorious event.






Oh, I think he's cute. I can definitely see why Jeri Ryan would go out with him.

Interestingly enough I remember reading in a Star Trek book that he was a bit kinky. He admitted he had a speculum collection and he said he'd love nothing more to examine the vagina of a 50 ft woman. And no I'm not making this up.
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Old June 19 2009, 08:08 AM   #1880
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Oh, I think he's cute. I can definitely see why Jeri Ryan would go out with him.

Interestingly enough I remember reading in a Star Trek book that he was a bit kinky. He admitted he had a speculum collection and he said he'd love nothing more to examine the vagina of a 50 ft woman. And no I'm not making this up.
Yeah, that was pretty weird. Phew, that's put me right off the strange, talentless hack.
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Old June 19 2009, 12:40 PM   #1881
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tomalak wrote: View Post


Braga: "I jumped the shark? Eh, who cares."
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Old June 19 2009, 10:33 PM   #1882
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Counterpoint (**½)

Frasier: Yes, you sit at the piano every Sunday morning and play Mahler for Maris. But you hate Mahler! Besides Maris, who doesn't?!
Aha, I knew it! Janeway is Maris Crane! It all makes sense now.

Counterpoint is an interesting episode but a few things hold it back from being good. My biggest problem is the romance between Janeway and Kashyk, not because I don't want to see Janeway in a romance or because I want to see her shacking up with a certain native American we all know well, but because I don't feel this was the right episode for a Janeway romance of the week. Kashyk has double-crossed his people, but he's actually double-crossing Janeway (which makes it a triple-cross), but then we realise that Janeway has double-crossed Kashyk (which makes it a quadruple-cross). Did Janeway really feel anything for Kashyk or was she just playing him? Did Kashyk feel anything for her or was he just playing her? The episode doesn't know, it is content to end without truly exploring anybody's real feelings.

Another problem this episode has is that the enemy ultimately wins, some telepaths may have escaped in the short-term but what the Devore really wanted was the location of the wormhole the telepaths are using to cross their space. They now know the last five locations of the wormhole and should be able to extrapolate where it will appear in the future, but the episode doesn't realise that Janeway lost and it plays out like a win.

I don't believe that Kashyk would just let Voyager go at the end, his excuse is that he doesn't want this failure on his record, but clearly this is just the writer's excuse for having Voyager not be impounded in the next episode. There's also the issue of where Tuvok and the other telepaths in the crew went to while the Devore were on the ship and why they were allowed to leave with Voyager.

The word I can best use to describe this episode is "interesting", but that is probably a damning remark. There's a lot of story potential here and the fact that the episode doesn't spin that potential into something good is a great loss for the show. I wasn't bored, but I feel this episode could have been so much more.

Two shuttles were taken by the telepaths, two torpedoes were fired.
Shuttles Lost: 11
Torpedoes: 41/38
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Old June 19 2009, 10:55 PM   #1883
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Grrr, the one with Jurot, the Betazoid who was never mentioned before or since. How about deducting half a star for each episode in which she would be useful, but doesn't appear?

I like the episode, because I think it's actually quite a good romance episode for Star Trek standards, and certainly the best on Voyager. I think it's stylish, the music is great, and the idea of having to put the Catholics away in priest holes is interesting. The sci-fi bit with the wormholes is quite incidental.

I'm still not altogether sure who was playing who, and at what point Janeway realised he realised that she realised that he realised that she realised he was lying. Or even if he was. I probably need to watch it again. Anyway, Kate Mulgrew and Mark Harelik were both very good, and it's quite a different sort of episode for the show.
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Old June 19 2009, 11:21 PM   #1884
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Counterpoint did nothing for me--so I guess that makes it a decidedly average hour.

The Janeway romance wasn't interesting. I could care less who is playing who. I hate to keep doing this because I really hate making comparisons with other Trek shows but "The Defector" and "In the Pale Moonlight" were really the definitive Machivellian Trek episodes. The idea that the Devore outlawed telepathy was an interesting idea but the Devore themselves were rather mundane.

This was just more season five mediocrity. I'll give it 2.5 stars out of 4. In fact there are only a smattering of episodes I enjoyed that are upcoming--Bride of Chaotica, Bliss, Dark Frontier, Think Tank, 11:59, Relativity and Equinox. The rest were awful or just plain boring.
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Old June 20 2009, 03:29 AM   #1885
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Kashyk has double-crossed his people, but he's actually double-crossing Janeway (which makes it a triple-cross), but then we realise that Janeway has double-crossed Kashyk (which makes it a quadruple-cross). Did Janeway really feel anything for Kashyk or was she just playing him? Did Kashyk feel anything for her or was he just playing her? The episode doesn't know, it is content to end without truly exploring anybody's real feelings.
But that's the beauty of it. It's as Mulgrew once descirbed it a "sting within a sting". Janeway wins - or does she?

Not a traditional "romance" by any stretch of the imaginatation but aren't there enough of those? I would rate it higher.
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Old June 20 2009, 05:19 AM   #1886
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Counterpoint (**½)
This was Mulgrew's favorite episode, right? She certainly gave it her all.

One of my favorites, too.
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Old June 20 2009, 07:23 AM   #1887
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Yeah I really liked Counterpoint, sure there are some plot issues but Mulgrew is clearly having a great time and really sells the episode. Also a very interesting use of music - a modern Star Trek rarity.
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Old June 20 2009, 09:51 AM   #1888
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tomalak wrote: View Post
Grrr, the one with Jurot, the Betazoid who was never mentioned before or since. How about deducting half a star for each episode in which she would be useful, but doesn't appear?
At least we got to meet her in Voyager: Elite Force!
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Old June 20 2009, 10:17 AM   #1889
Tomalak
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

NumberSix wrote: View Post
Tomalak wrote: View Post
Grrr, the one with Jurot, the Betazoid who was never mentioned before or since. How about deducting half a star for each episode in which she would be useful, but doesn't appear?
At least we got to meet her in Voyager: Elite Force!
Oh yes! And If you play as Alexandria Munroe (as is my wont), you get to have a hot lesbian affair.
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Old June 21 2009, 07:29 PM   #1890
Praetor
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Counterpoint (**½)

Frasier: Yes, you sit at the piano every Sunday morning and play Mahler for Maris. But you hate Mahler! Besides Maris, who doesn't?!
Aha, I knew it! Janeway is Maris Crane! It all makes sense now.

{snip}

The word I can best use to describe this episode is "interesting", but that is probably a damning remark. There's a lot of story potential here and the fact that the episode doesn't spin that potential into something good is a great loss for the show. I wasn't bored, but I feel this episode could have been so much more.

Two shuttles were taken by the telepaths, two torpedoes were fired.
Shuttles Lost: 11
Torpedoes: 41/38
I tend to agree. I enjoy it quite a bit, but it was rather... muddled.

Tomalak wrote: View Post
Grrr, the one with Jurot, the Betazoid who was never mentioned before or since. How about deducting half a star for each episode in which she would be useful, but doesn't appear?

I like the episode, because I think it's actually quite a good romance episode for Star Trek standards, and certainly the best on Voyager. I think it's stylish, the music is great, and the idea of having to put the Catholics away in priest holes is interesting. The sci-fi bit with the wormholes is quite incidental.

I'm still not altogether sure who was playing who, and at what point Janeway realised he realised that she realised that he realised that she realised he was lying. Or even if he was. I probably need to watch it again. Anyway, Kate Mulgrew and Mark Harelik were both very good, and it's quite a different sort of episode for the show.
The magically appearing Jurot was very annoying. With a ship of 150 people, you'd have really thought we'd have met them all by now, at least once.

But the reasons you cite are basically the reasons I enjoyed it.
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