Superman Returns: Did Richard Know?

[FalTorPan]

Broccoli wrote:

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I just watched Superman Returns for the first time in a few years. I love that movie. I know others don't, but I think it's great.

I love the movie, too, and I believe that (1) Lois knew that Superman was Jason's biological father, and (2) Richard knew that he wasn't Jason's biological father.

[Gryffindorian]

I've been checking this thread on and off, and what it all comes down to is that everything is open to interpretation. Whether or not Richard knew about Jason's parentage would depend on what Lois had known from the very beginning.

Let's consider the following. If Lois didn't know of Jason's biological father, then that would make her a very stupid, clueless woman. (One could argue about the amnesia/memory loss, but that's assuming SR's continuity is linked to the first two Donner films). If Lois DID know who Jason's real father was and she kept it from Richard, that would make her a liar.

EDIT:

In sum, Superman/Clark didn't know (at least not at first).

Lois might have known.

Richard didn't know (IMHO, nor did he care) until it was made apparent to him.

[MNM]

I admit it's been a while since I saw this film, but is there any evidence in it to show that the kid is actually Supermans? all I remember is a piano flying across the room, but that it wasnt shown how that had happened, it was more an assumption that the kid had done it, and it could have just as easily been the boat they were on lurching that did it?

[Broccoli]

MNM wrote:

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I admit it's been a while since I saw this film, but is there any evidence in it to show that the kid is actually Supermans? all I remember is a piano flying across the room, but that it wasnt shown how that had happened, it was more an assumption that the kid had done it, and it could have just as easily been the boat they were on lurching that did it?

Well, the piano scene, we see the piano fly across the room at a really fast rate. The shot cuts to the kid who has his hands outstretched where the piano was. The piano could have spontaneously moved, or the boat could have rocked, but considering there was no jarring movement to force the piano to move a such a great speed, this is unlikely.

Also, his Asthma suddenly stopped, which links to the flashback earlier in the movie that Clark gained perfect vision when he learned how to fly.

Also, there is the fact that Lois tells Superman and Superman comes to the house later to give him the speech his father gave him. So, unless Superman was under a horribly mistaken assumption, the kid was his.

[MNM]

Broccoli wrote:

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Well, the piano scene, we see the piano fly across the room at a really fast rate. The shot cuts to the kid who has his hands outstretched where the piano was. The piano could have spontaneously moved, or the boat could have rocked, but considering there was no jarring movement to force the piano to move a such a great speed, this is unlikely.

Also, his Asthma suddenly stopped, which links to the flashback earlier in the movie that Clark gained perfect vision when he learned how to fly.

Also, there is the fact that Lois tells Superman and Superman comes to the house later to give him the speech his father gave him. So, unless Superman was under a horribly mistaken assumption, the kid was his.

So it's more an educated guess rather than anything outright said? Thought I didnt remember that line.

If that is all so, then I doubt Richard knew.

[sojourner]

She also lies to Lex and tells him that Richard is the boy's father, but we all know that's not true.

Been awhile since I saw the movie, but from what I recall she didn't answer Lex.

[xman]

sojourner wrote:

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Been awhile since I saw the movie, but from what I recall she didn't answer Lex.

My DVD player is on the fritz so I can't check right now to be absolutely certain, but I own the movie and I just watched it a few weeks ago and as I recall it, Lex asks her directly who, "that boy's father" is and she replies, "Richard". I could be wrong. I've been wrong before, but I'm pretty sure that's what's said.

[Worf2DS9]

^ Yeah, that's what she said. Then Lex replied, "Are you sure?"

As for the piano, wouldn't it be safe to assume that it was also nailed down like everything else to prevent it from moving around on the high seas? A simple lurch of the yacht wouldn't have shot the piano across the room at such a high rate of speed (not to mention exactly where it needed to go, nor at the precise second it needed to). To me, it's pretty obvious Jason did the deed.

[Captaindemotion]

^ I thought it was indisputable that Jason moved the piano. This thread is the first time I've seen anything else suggested.

[Broccoli]

sojourner wrote:

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Been awhile since I saw the movie, but from what I recall she didn't answer Lex.

She said "Richard", but did so in a frightened manner, which can indicate two things: 1) She was simply scared, because Lex was asking things specifically about her kid or 2) She knew that the kid was Supes' and didn't want Lex to know and/or have Lex expose the Kryptonite to Jason (which, of course, he does moments later in which Jason doesn't react to it).

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah she replied Richard in a very defensive way...maybe even still trying to convince himself, and then Lex responds "Are You Sure" (one of the best lines in the film) and despite what everyone else says I still think that Jason was reacting to the Kryptonite. It didn't effect him completely like Clark because his powers have developed just starting to but the reaction in the face (along with already being scared of the situation) seemed to indicate a reaction of some kind to the mineral.

[Nick Ryder]

Course the fact that Lois could even have Superman's kid blows... literally... Niven's "Man of Steel, Women of Kleenex" theory.

Richard probably knew Lois was a closet slut, so he figgered if it wasn't his kid, it was someone else's... but hey... he still gets to do the horizontal mambo and watch her parade around in silky lingerie... so hey... win some lose some

[hyzmarca]

NickRyder wrote:

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Course the fact that Lois could even have Superman's kid blows... literally... Niven's "Man of Steel, Women of Kleenex" theory.

Only half of it, that she would be unable to carry a superfetus to term. Apparently, the lack of yellow sunlight in the womb helps in that regard, as does the fact that the baby is half human.

But, it does nothing to dissuade us from the belief that Superman's shotgun-like ejaculation would completely annihilate Lois if they had sex. The only reason they were able to make love in Superman 2 is that Clark gave up his powers and was no stronger than a mortal human at the time.

And that's as good an explanation as any for why Superman left her after getting his powers back.

[xman]

hyzmarca wrote:

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... But, it does nothing to dissuade us from the belief that Superman's shotgun-like ejaculation with completely annihilate Lois if they had sex. ...

A fun supposition, but unnecessary. Does Clark destroy every coffee cup he picks up? Does he leave destructive footprints in his wake wherever he goes? No. He has control over his powers. One can argue that we lose control during orgasm which might technically be more realistic, but not much fun for story telling. So, in my mind Superman has Super Kegles and can control his ejac.

[hyzmarca]

Picking up a coffee cup is a voluntary action; ejaculation is not. And besides, it could be great from a storytelling point of view, if used properly. It would just lead to a rating higher than PG-13.